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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,184
    The sales comment and redesign is tht your opinion or fact? If fact from where? Like I said mb and Nissan getting together on a 6 that will be the standard engine for a boatload of cars - I have no read anything on the redesign, which is funny because it's match and Infiniti usually releases new models in oct-
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,449
    Didn't realize the G's current iteration was that "mature". But, you're right, it's time for a major upgrade. They've got about as much mileage out of that platform (both the Altima and the G) as they can wring out of it.

    Same with the IS. I remember looking at an IS350 6 years ago. Wanted to pull the trigger, but the local Lexus dealer acted insulted that I tried to negotiate on it. Now, I'm glad I didn't pull the trigger on one.

    I can see how the current lux/sport landscape is settling in. On the very top end, you have the BMW 3. On the mid-range, you have the A4/5 and Mercedes C. On the entry range, there's the TL and the G....these are the biggest "bang for the buck" in this range.

    I'm going to watch the next iterations of the TL and the G closely. I've always liked both.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    Fact: The G is in its sixth model year 2007-2012
    - your playing with semantics, all that changed between 2008 and 2009 was the 3.7 liter V6 and 7spd transmission.

    Fact: The G was down 9% for Jan 2012 in sales and just now broke even with YTD in 2011.

    Fact: The introduction of the G25 did not increase the G's overall sales number in the quantity Infiniti originally hoped for.

    Fact: The Altima is being redesigned for 2013

    With this FACTUAL information, there is a need to introduce a redesign G that is more refined, has much better mpg, etc than the current 2nd Gen G series. Like someone else mentioned, Infiniti has milked its current iteration. They need something fresh to keep nipping on the heels of the 3-Series!

    Hey, I'm not Infiniti hater, I had an Infiniti at one point, but they need to get their act together to stay competitive. I think this co-op with Mercedes will bring the refinement to the Infiniti line-up that everyone has wanted and complained about for years. I hope they apply this as well and bring a redesigned FX and EX b/c those two crossovers are not helping their sales numbers either.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    I'm not sure how the G is on the lower end of that range considering it is constantly compared against the 3-Series. If anything the 3-Series and G are at the top of the range, with the A4/C-Class in the middle and ES/TL on the lower end of the range.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    edited March 2012
    Have you seen pictures (concepts) of the new G? It is fugly!

    To my eyes, it looks like a Bizzarro World version of the Genesis Coupe.

    When did the Japanese start copying the Koreans?
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    The TL isn't in this class at all, though, as it's a large luxury sedan that's similar to a Cadillac or Lexus. It's also front wheel drive, which further complicates the problem.

    To be entry level and performance, it has to have three things.
    - Rear wheel drive. If it is AWD, it absolutely has to be rear-wheel biased. (performance part #1)
    - Be midsize or compact (performance part #2)
    - Not just a tin can with a bunch of leather added.
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,184
    Fact is you have yet to post any actual information from any source about the redo. You quote sales numbers. The sales figure you quoted, fact says they sold the same Amt of cars ytd as they did in 2011- so they are flat by your estimates. You stated the obvious that they are in the 7th year with the current car, and while I agree they need a refresh I have not seen any word on this coming, but you stated Fact that they are a go for 2013, maybe a spy shot or 2 of Infinitis main seller. I would like to see the press release or a car mag that inFact states this is true- not some comment about the Altima, a car that's for sure the same body style bit 90% of its sales are 4cyl, is fwd, and uses a cvt- 3 major differences when doing a redu. Its great to have an opionion but it's not Fact no matter how many times you write it.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    Everything I stated was fact. Perhaps if you spent less time arguing with people on here about how great Infiniti is, and actually do some research online, you wouldn't have to be so argumentative.

    BTW - I never said Infiniti confirmed a redesign for 2013, as myself and others have pointed, we said they are in NEED of a redesign as the car is in its sixth model year. Big difference. Nor did I say the car is in its seventh model year. If you do some simple math 2012-2007, that is 6 yrs not 7 yrs.

    Everything I stated is fact, as is the Altima sharing the same platform as the G Sedan so if the Altima is getting redesign, it makes logical sense that the G would be as well as that is a common occurrence when platforms are shared.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,599
    edited March 2012
    so if the Altima is getting redesign, it makes logical sense that the G would be as well as that is a common occurrence when platforms are shared.

    Not if moving forward with the same platform. The sheetmetal bolted to it isn't shared between the vehicles, so it doesn't matter if one gets redesigned UNLESS it is moving to a new platform.

    HOWEVER, in this case, you are incorrect anyway, as the G is on the FM platform (RWD/AWD), while the Altima is on the D platform.

    Speaking of which, the FM platform is already 11 years old. I wish Nissan would either replace it altogether or keep using it just for SUVs. The damned thing results in porky cars. They need something lighter yet more rigid for the Z/G, IMHO.

    '13 Stang GT; '15 Fit; '98 Volvo S70; '14 Town&Country

  • billyperksiibillyperksii Posts: 198
    edited March 2012
    What's the purpose of this post?
    Is it based on ranting or just pure ignorance?
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,562
    edited March 2012
    Thanks for posting that.
    I was going to look up the relationship
    between those 2 - but had not, yet.
    Did not seem logical, to me...
    [ like the Infiniti Coupe and the Nissan 370Z - both RWD - does ]
    - Ray
    Currently a RWD coupe driver ......
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,184
    Backtract once again- smarty you are so back to your TL driving ways....
    (remember when you argued for the tL, then 6mrhs later you traded it in for the 3)- Fact is you state the obvious and add no real value. Mb and Infiniti getting together, 2011 production issues, global economic issues= no redo for 2013.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,672
    edited March 2012
    The 3rd Gen Altima used the FF-L Platform, the 4th Gen (current car) uses the the D platform, the Current Infiniti G uses the FM platform, so how are they same platfom?
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    Backtract once again sweentoad, never traded the TL in for a 3-Series; fact is, your argumentative attitude here makes anything you have to say hold no real value to anyone

    - stick with your Infiniti mpg while gas prices head to $5 bucks a gallon, :P
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    You are correct flight, I mixed up my platforms. 3rd Gen Altima had FF-L, 4th Gen D, and the G-Sedan Has the FM platform shared with the FX and 370z
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,889
    How much would you say to subtract from DEMO miles? $1 per mile? $.50 per mile? $.25 per mile?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,184
    Wrong again, shocker - cant wait for the 13 g you talk of. Fact
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,599
    Depends on the car. If we're talking a bimmer, the deduct on Galves for miles beyond average is $150/100 miles. So that's how I would calculate it.

    '13 Stang GT; '15 Fit; '98 Volvo S70; '14 Town&Country

  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    What's the purpose of this post?

    What is the title of this discussion? "Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans". My issue is that many cars that are just thrown into the discussion based upon either price or the fact that they are the bottom-tier model of the make.

    A "Performance Sedan" is another name for "Sports Sedan", right? Well, let's see that it says on wikipedia: (Note - when I typed in "Performance Sedan, it pulled up Sports Sedan instead)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_sedan

    Quote:
    The term "sport sedan" also came into being, when comparing luxury import sedans (i.e. BMW, Audi, and Mercedes-Benz), which were smaller cars popular with young buyers that focused on performance and handling, to domestic luxury marques such as Cadillac and Lincoln, for older customers and which emphasized size and comfort."

    A big front wheel drive boat like the TL isn't part of this group, anymore than a Toyota Camry V6 is. And before you go off on me about the TL being on the list on that Wikipedia page, it's referring to the previous generation A-Spec model that was sold in Canada and Japan only. The current model is much larger and more like a fancy Camry than a sports sedan.

    When I heard the original poster talking about choosing between the TL and a G37, I had to do a double-take. Did he actually drive both of them at anything faster than 30mph around the block?
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,889
    The miles are low. Less than 3500. I think it still qualifies for their .9% financing if it hasn't been titled, right?

    Still on the fence about this one. Thinking of trading in my 2010 TSX Tech with 48,500 miles for a demo '11 328xiA w/ premium, value, xenon, navigation, metallic paint, heated wheel I saw listed on a dealer's website. The 0.9% financing + $2500 rebate + 2 months payments looks awfully tempting.

    Each car obviously has it's advantages. I can make up a million excuses to why I shouldn't/can't buy the 3er, but that doesn't mean I don't want one:)

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • sergeymsergeym Posts: 262
    I would not consider a BMW without a sport package. I'd rather get one with less equipment but with sport seats, suspension and steering wheel.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 15,416
    nice car. Do it. You won't regret it!

    my take on the demo miles? not enough, and way less than if you were looking to trade in something with the same miles!

    I bet they start low, maybe $.10, possibly .$20? $1.00 is probably too aggressive, but looking at ~.$50 seems right, since much less and you might as well buy new.

    2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4i Limited Tech (mine), 2013 Acura RDX (wife's) and 2007 Volvo S40 (daughters college car)

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 15,416
    they all seem to have the nicer (3 spoke) steering wheel now. not like the E46 days where it was a big difference. The seats though, they are nice.

    And I don't want any lower profile tires or stiffer suspension, especially if stuck with run flats. not with the hideous roads around here.

    2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4i Limited Tech (mine), 2013 Acura RDX (wife's) and 2007 Volvo S40 (daughters college car)

  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,562
    Here is a listing from the closest BMW dealer to me.
    FWIW.

    http://www.gwinnettbmw.com/bmw-reduced-price-click-here-for-our-demos--dealer-85- 95-sid-16797.html

    - Ray
    I agree with SergeyM regarding the Sport Pkg...
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,562
    Interesting - a six-speed manual trans. 335i demo...?
    http://www.gwinnettbmw.com/detail-2011-bmw-3_series-4dr_sdn_335i_rwd-used-821798- 5.html
    - Ray
    THAT seems rather odd.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,889
    I agree that sports seats are awesome. Pretty much every BMW here in the northeast is AWD, so the sport pkg doesn't have sport suspension.

    It's going to be a daily driver & not a track car. Even BMWs regular suspension is enough for my mere average driving abilities.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,599
    Whoops. Make that $150/1000

    If I had to choose, I think I would have to take premium over sport. I need the lumbar support. Of course, BOTH is the best.

    '13 Stang GT; '15 Fit; '98 Volvo S70; '14 Town&Country

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,672
    I could not agree more, however not too sure where in NY NYCcarguy lives, my cousin lives on Long Island the roads are horrible at best, the sport package would be the death of people.... Now living in PHX, sport package (really the M package) is the only way to go.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,889
    Flightnurse - I actually don't live in NYC anymore (I did when I 1st signed onto edmunds back in the late 1990's). I live in Connecticut now. But yes, the roads here in the northeast are terrible at best.

    I went to a BMW dealer on my way home from work today. 1st sat in a gorgeous Black Saphire/Red 135i M Sport/6 speed. After dreaming for a sec and then thinking what my wife would hurl at me for bringing that home, I sat in an E90 328xi. One thing I live about my Acura is the thickly bolstered seats. The seats in the non sport (E90) 3 are just very plain Jane. I most cars in the northeast are ordered w/o the sports pkg. I think I'll wait it out until I can afford what I want & not just take a car because it's a good deal.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,184
    So you can't get the true sports suspension on a 3 series if it's equipped with xdrive and get the optional sports pack or M sport option?
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