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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,261
    I coul have made a killer deal on an '11 Infiniti M37x when I was shopping for my 335i...matter of fact, I could have bought it at about the same price as the 3.... Give or take. It was totally loaded uo, too. Didn't care for it's styling (nor it's heavy handling). It's styling is similar to the pics of the upcoming G. Ambivalent aboutmit on the M....even more so on the upcoming G.
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    Since the Tdi was just released I would question the data until such cars are actually driven.

    Tech on the m g z and max are very close I agree. But I would argue they are making an effort - again look at the base 3 and explain to me where the the tech is? I think BMW uses the same radio they did in 1996.. And there is no excuse not to have leather as standard.

    Mpg on Infinitis - I own one and I'm not even close on the city rating - I get like 14 which is truck like terrible.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,890
    and I think this group could offer good opinions:
    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f25809c/

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  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    edited April 2012
    So we are now compairing the handling of a midsize flagship to a compact sports sedan. The BMW love is great but let's keep it fair- apples to apples

    Here's what aol cars said about the "heavy handling"

    "Even without the Sport Package (which adds 20-inch alloys, performance tires, 4-Wheel Active Steer and more), the M37 handles very well. Thrown into a corner, its sport sedan underpinnings (Nissan's shared rear-wheel-drive FM platform) come alive. It's not a track star, but on public roads it's much more capable than 99 percent of its drivers will ever require"

    I guess if your tracking your car I would of went with the 3 as well- but then again I also would picked the manual transmission if your a True performance enthiuisius.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    Wow, that opinion is almost 360 degrees opposite of most reviews I read online about Nissan and Infiniti interiors. Most say they are ergonomically sounds and easy to learn with few buttons. Have you seen the center stack on an Acura lately?

    I agree with Sween though on the BMW interior, what differences does it make if it has crisp lines, if it looks drab and boring. I do like Audi interior's though.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,642
    Sweeny the TDi has been around almost 10 yrs, even the last Gen Passt has it. The Current Jetta gets better MPG then what the EPA states, which is a good enough data point to start with, and current owners of the MY 2012 Passt have reported (go to the website) better then what the EPA posted. It is safe to say that the Passt will get better MPG...
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,341
    edited April 2012
    Spring Mountain is a great venue in Pahrump, NV. I'd like to get out to Willow Springs sometime.

    AS to durability vs. reliablity. I think that guy Mark has it all confused.

    He's talking about maintenance costs (or lack thereof because of prepaid plans; whether built-in or added). Maintenance costs have nothing to do with reliability or durability.

    Reliability issues come from Chrysler using corroded metals and wires for starter cables, batteries, and terminals. Other issues come from faulty O2 sensors, fuel pumps, O-rings, head gaskets, automatic transmissions that can't go 70K without being rebuilt, parking brake problems, rattles, short-lived belts, AC compressors that can't last 40K.

    Reliability issues are things that I have to pay for when I bought a Dodge but never had to pay for when I bought a Honda (and not because of a prepaid built-in maintenance plan aka BMW)!. I had to get brake pads and rotors for both, so that doesn't count. There's just a million things and parts that break down on a domestic product that never seem to be an issue in my Japanese and German experiences.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,341
    If all cars are reliable then I'll pay you to cover the repairs on my next 10 vehicles up to 100K miles and 10 years (ala Hyundai) for the grand total of $100.00. That should be an acceptable amount for you to assume all liability for all repairs for breakdowns since all cars are reliable, as you so state.

    Put your money where your mouth is..... somehow, I don't think you will sign this contract... :sick: :surprise:
  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaPosts: 3,776
    I've owned/leased many German and Japanese sedans, i.e. Lexus, Infiniti, BMW, Audi and Mercedes, and have found Japanese ergonomics (interior design) to be more "techy", roomier and busier than German automobiles. On the other hand, I have found that German vehicles (ergonomics) less "flamboyant", more "earthy", more functional and easier to master!

    This opinion is based upon yearly new car purchases. Even when comparing German to German vehicles, BMW is a sporty luxury vehicle as is Audi while I've found Mercedes to be a luxury sport sedan. I currently own a 2012 E350 sport sedan and find it more ergonomically satisfying than the other German entrants.

    But Lexus is a bit more "relaxed" while Infiniti is a bit "stiffer" ergonomically! I would compare Infiniti more closely with BMW and Audi - than with Mercedes or Lesus. In fact, Lexus is in a class by itself as is Mercedes - each quite different ergonomically from Audi, BMW and Infiniti.

    I truly enjoy the Mercedes interior and refinements and find its ergonomics to be somewhat of a cross between the subtler Lexus and the stiffer BMW-Audi-Infiniti.

    Let's face it - all entrants here have successfully enjoyed gains in US market-share. The reason is that each attracts followers of different needs and desires.

    Just thought I'd share some thoughts and experiences.

    2014 Mercedes Benz CLS 550 - best car ever! 2nd best car ever, my 1967 Corvette Stingray Coupe with 435 hp.

  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    Once again not following - I was commenting on the 2012 with the dsg- which this car - being a 2012 was just released. I'm sure the owners are getting better mpg- and so have every tester review ive read- but To say the dsg is better then the manual I can't agree, certainly after he reviews I've read and seeing the manual has better Mpgs- jetta has same engine but actually gets worse mpg then this new rig.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,261
    Abacomike.....appreciate your inputs. I was actually considering an E350 coupe last year before I pulled the trigger on the 335i coupe. I followed your posts fairly regularly over on the MB boards. Yoru input over there was quite useful.

    While I didnt't find the Benzes to be compelling enough for my serious consideration, your knowledge of them was quite useful.

    Needless to say, I prefered the interior of my BMW over the E350 coupe.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,642
    Sweeny not too sure why you have have a hard time understanding..

    The TDI engine has been around for a while, even though it is in a NEW body style, the data from the current Jetta and last Gen Passt still can be used to compare. In fact the current Passt weights less and has better CD then last Gen passt so the current car would get better mileage. Not too sure why this is tough for you to understand.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,505
    That's not entirely accurate. TDI trade mark has been around for years, but the current engine is quite new. Until 2009 or so VAG was using completely different technology on their diesels, based on pump-injection device. It was a 4-cylinder 1.9 l - crude, noisy, but very stout and durable. Their current TDI is 2.0 l uses common rail technology, more modern indeed, but its durability is not as impressive. It is also more expensive to maintain.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    Thx you Dino- Flight my question and response was on the new 2012 which i mentioned a couple of times.
  • greg128greg128 Posts: 345
    edited April 2012
    AC compressors that can't last 40K.

    Oh you mean Honda CRV AC compressors
  • greg128greg128 Posts: 345
    automatic transmissions that can't go 70K without being rebuilt

    Oh, you mean Honda Odyssey transmissions
  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaPosts: 3,776
    Thanks! BMW's manufacture great cars. I just had a very bad experience with 2-2008 535i's. So I gave up on BMW. It was electrical issues on 2 brand new535i's that had the same problems. The 3 series are great cars. Enjoy!

    2014 Mercedes Benz CLS 550 - best car ever! 2nd best car ever, my 1967 Corvette Stingray Coupe with 435 hp.

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,261
    Mercedes makes good ones, too. You've found a line you know and enjoy. Stop by here from time-to-time. Would like to read some of your insights.
    :)
  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaPosts: 3,776
    After retiring from Public and Private School Administration, I moved to Florida to take care of my ailing parents. I got a job selling Lexus and then manager of an Infiniti Store. I have found that Mercedes manufactures, designs and engineers the most trouble-free sedans in both their C and E class lines. I've owned 7 E Class Sedans and have never, ever had any of them in to the service department for repairs, issues, or anything, except oil changes.

    I doubt it is just "luck". Not after experiencing BMW 5 series issues with two identical cars with identical electrical issues, both manufactures in Germany and shipped here in the same year, 2008.

    I found that Infiniti is most closely alligned with BMW in terms of ride and handling and power along with Audi. Lexus seems to be in a class by itself, as is Mercedes. I do not compare Mercedes to BMW, Audi or Infiniti due to the ride and handling differences.

    Finally, Mercedes E Class Sedans and Coupes are equipped with a 302 horsepower powerplant and fuel economy over 30 mpg hwy.

    In summary, Audi, BMW, Lexus, Mercedes and Infiniti manufacture outstanding vehicles. Each one is just a little different from the other - enough so that they attract a large segment of the driving public. The only think BMW has over the other brands in this category is free total maintenance which saves the driver about 300-600 dollars a year, depending upon when a car is due for brakes, etc. Otherwise, I rate the entire segment mentioned above as outstanding value for the dollar.

    2014 Mercedes Benz CLS 550 - best car ever! 2nd best car ever, my 1967 Corvette Stingray Coupe with 435 hp.

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,662
    Thanks for posting your insights here. I very much appreciate it. Have you checked out the Stories From The Sales Frontlines thread here? We'd love to hear some of your sales stories over there.

    What do you think of the new C250 & C350 and the outgoing C300 (which they still sell with 4Matic here in the northeast)?

    Powered By Honda2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD

  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaPosts: 3,776
    I spoke with Mercedes, and they told me that they are trying their best to increase mpg's across the line as they will not meet federal mandates in 2 years if they don't start now.

    They are phasing out the C300 (4 matic is sold down here only, as you know, so it is almost impossible to get a C300 down here in FL) and increasing the lines mpg's with the C250 and the higher horsepower, higher fuel efficient C350.

    Also, very shortly they will be expanding their "engine shut down at stops for longer than 30- secs" which they claim will increase mpg's by 20% throughout their line. When you stop for more than a few seconds at a light, the engine shuts down automatically. It starts up immediately when the accelerator is depressed. Much like those propane golf carts in the mountains.

    Mercedes missed the boat by not coming out with a diesel hybrid, in my opinion.

    And thanks, I will check out the Sales Frontlines Thread. I sold new cars and managed two dealerships, and you wouldn't believe the stories I have. I began writing them down as I want to write a book about my experiences.

    thanks again

    2014 Mercedes Benz CLS 550 - best car ever! 2nd best car ever, my 1967 Corvette Stingray Coupe with 435 hp.

  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,341
    edited April 2012
    AC compressors that can't last 40K.

    Oh you mean Honda CRV AC compressors


    I don't know about that.... my 2003 Accord had 65,000 miles and 50 months of age on it when I sold it and I had spent $0.00 on the A/C and it still blew cold. The Neon cost me about a thousand dollars thanks to burned belts in addition to the compressor blowing, it seized on the belt and burned it causing ancilliary damages. This was at literally 36,100 miles or so. Just in time to be denied warranty claim.

    Honda 1, Chrysler 0.
    Audi 1, Chrysler 0.
    Toyota 1, Chyrsler 0

    No matter what I or my family buys, I can't have as many failures as the Dodge. If I added up all the costs and numbers of repairs for 3 or 4 Toyotas, 2 Hondas, and 1 Audi, it still doesn't add up to the cost per mile of a single Chrysler in repairs.

    Sorry.... bankrupt twice..bailed out twice..... Strike 3 and your out I hope!
    My families vehicles seem to never have the problems Chryslers do.
  • My wife's 2004 Accord has 130K on it with no major issues-
    1). Window Regulator
    2). Changed the drive belt at around 115k
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    I finally picked up my new 3-series convertible...

    Friday in Sacramento
    image

    Saturday on the coast
    image

    Sunday in the garage
    image
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,662
    Awesome! I love it & your 911! Congrats!

    Powered By Honda2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,261
    Fed.....love the pics. Love your family of cars even more!
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    Best pick is the one of the bull-
    Infact edmunds should have a funny pix section blog - or a general pix blog - post a pix with uour car maybe at a landmark of some sort- my camry climbed mt Washington - or my Porsche went to the opera- could be fun and put some life into the site.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,890
    I don't see any reason we couldn't do that! We can't make a blog, but we could have a discussion on the Auto News board. Feel free to start one if you've got a pic to kick it off.

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  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,860
    I like it. Sort of like all the cans of Spam pics on the top of Denali or the Eiffel Tower. :shades:

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