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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,455
    edited June 2012
    nyc.....seems as if BMW finally got their DCT trans to the point where it's really, really good. I've never driven this, but found a blurb video that addresses BMW's DCT briefly. I drove the old version, which as the reviewer points out, was bad.

    http://reviews.cnet.com/coupe-hatchback/2011-bmw-m3-coupe/4505-10867_7-34837307.- - html

    Sounds very similar to the S-Tronic in our S4.

    Can't remember if it was you, but someone wanted to see the console and nav in the S4.

    Photobucket

    Photobucket
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,903
    I didn't ask, but damn that is beautiful! So who has been driving the S4 more, you or your GF?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,673
    edited June 2012
    Sweeny what does that have to do with manual car?

    First off, driver skills, what skills? 99% of drivers in America have no skills at al! When was the last time you double clutched your G? How often have you 4 wheel drifted your G, coming out of a corner?
    Whether you are driving LI Expressway, the 405 in LA or I35 in Austin the amount of traffic on the roads today do not allow one to use "drivers skills" these days, and since you have stated in the past you have never taken your G35 on the track, then having done any "driver skills" is out of the question.

    Also what does driving a manual have to with endurance?
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,563
    edited June 2012
    'if BMW finally got their DCT trans to the point where it's really, really good.'
    Approaching 10,000 miles on a BMW 3 w/DCT,
    my opinion is that it is very, very good.
    - Ray
    Just read the R&T test of BMW's M5 w/DCT online this morning...
    [ Edit: And w/Manual 6-speed. ]
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,455
    edited June 2012
    FN...just because someone knows how to drive a manual trans (who doesn't in this thread?), doesn't equate to being a good driver, let alone a good track participant. One type of trans doesn't make you a skilled driver over another type of trans.

    A good driver is a good driver, a bad driver is a bad driver, regardless of the transmission that's in their car, or if they're on a track.

    Lo those many years ago when I was still tracking my ratty Mustang, it was always a hoot to watch the folks who fashioned themselves as "track guys". My car looked like garbage. But, it was always fun to dispatch them. I kind of salivate thinking what I could have done on the track with one of these current day dual clutch auto/manual trans.

    RAY.....would love to test drive a BMW with their recent DCT. I bet it's a blast.

    NYC....as always....appreciate the comments. Last week, I commandeered the S4. Since then, she's been in it, making sure she takes it before I can grab the keys.

    Frankly, it depends on which car has the most gas as to which one she takes....... ;)
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,563
    'RAY.....would love to test drive a BMW with their recent DCT. I bet it's a blast. '
    Next time you are in HotLanta, let me know
    and you can drive this one...
    - Ray
    Blast is a good description...
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,185
    I'm amazed at a guy who calls people out for not reading the posts-has the stones to respond as such- "track" was the main point. I have done various driving schools- never competed in any track events- and at those schools they do not teach students on automatics- one reason is to fully be more in tune with the car. Driving a manual on a track takes skill- it takes energy and thus endurance- pretty simple observations.
    I'm amazed at your comments at times - not everyone has been to Germany to pick up one of 3bmws and had owned a corvette - Im also not really up on leader ads - but one thing I do know is of you drive a manual the right hand has more to do then just turn the radio and text -so I'm all for it.

    I will never Track my g- unless I hit the lotto I don't see a reason to track a 45k car with the potential for it to be distroyed.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,455
    Ray...don't be surprised if I show up knocking on your door stating "where are your keys?". ;)

    My apologies in advance to the kind hosts, and to my fellow posters in this thread for what I'm about to write.

    I've been on this site for at least 15 years, maybe closer to 20. I can't even remember if I had a post that was deleted. I think there was once, a long time ago, when one of the hosts reminded me of my lack of decorum regarding a post. This may be the 2nd time. There may be a deletion coming my way, too.

    sween.....I try....I try really, really hard to ignore your narcissism.

    I'm about to fail miserably!

    We get it.

    Any car that's not your beloved G falls down in comparison in some way, shape or form. They either cost too much, they don't have a transmission you like, they have too many doors, they don't have the right label on the quarter panels, etc.

    You've taken a driving class. That's qualified you to belittle those of us who have built a track car, and/or actually have had track time.

    We get it.

    The only transmission you like is a manual transmission. Nothing else is worthy, regardless of how good it might be.

    Anyone who posts anything in here except what you want to post about is called out by you. You criticize anyone, with any vehicle, with any level of experience (or lack thereof) on the road, on the track, anywhere unless it's a G.

    You criticize, criticize, criticize....most other posters, most other posters' cars (except those who have a G), etc, etc etc!!!!!!!!!!!

    We get it!

    We get it!

    We get it!

    Enough already!
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,563
    'Ray...don't be surprised if I show up knocking on your door stating "where are your keys?". '
    Just post something here - we'll make arrangements.
    - Ray
    Used to drive manuals, now drive automatics...
  • billyperksiibillyperksii Posts: 198
    More like 15K now-book value, write it off the insurance will upgrade you to the G37. :)
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,914
    on the personally-directed comments, please. Stick to talking about cars, not about each other.

    PS: when I drive an automatic, I use my right hand to put on a finger puppet show for rear-seat passengers. :P
    Yeah, I really doubt that people text, etc., simply because they don't have anything to do with their right hand, and manual drivers who are inclined to do such things will do it between shifts. It's common sense that stops people from doing it, not transmission.

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  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,185
    you dont get it- my recent stance has nothing to do with a G - my comments never knock people who built a track car- or anyone who has had track time, more power and fun to them... this rant is unwarranted- I have not said anything about the "GF" S4, i envy such a car (mine would be wth the manual thou).

    i dont care if you are on this site for 15years or 15mins - you should re-read the posts before posting such rubbish. Please spare us with the !!!! and the WE get its-- really--

    I do believe the automatic has a place, a huge place in the market- but those who DRIVE are more engaged with a manual- done and done- (you can rant about the DSTs and CVTs all you want- its a computer directing you)

    And for billy- I dont care if my car is now worth 15 dollars or 15k - I paid what I paid for a daily driver and not a track car-
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,903
    Sweendogy - I give you a lot of credit for attending various driving schools. I also agree with you that if more people (not the guys here on the board), drove vehicles with manual transmissions that they'd pay more attention to their everyday driving habits. I used to heavily criticize many things on these boards many moons ago (I think I signed on in '99) from AWD to Automatic Transmissions.

    Automatics WERE terrible. My 1st car was a 1992 Chevrolet Beretta GT w/ a 3 speed automatic (garbage), my 2nd car was a 1998 Ford Explorer Sport with a 5 speed automatic that shifted slow & violently.

    I LOVE my 2001 Honda Prelude Type SH equipped with a slick shifting, 5 speed manual transmission. I DID NOT appreciate the bill I got to replace the clutch, friction plate, & throw out bearing at only 52,000 miles.

    My 328xi is an automatic w/ AWD. It's our 2nd BMW with AT & AWD (1st was my wife's 2007 X3). Manuals have been an $800 or so option for a number of years on the Corvette. Yes they are somewhat of a compromise, but that margin is getting slimmer & slimmer every year.

    I'd like to teach my children (5.5, 3, & 7 months) to drive stick and have their 1st car equipped with a manual transmission.

    Speaking of "driver skills," I put the brakes to the test on my BMW this morning. About 3/4 mile away from my house, I'm on a straight section of a curvy road. I see a TSX that took the corners so badly he was heading straight towards me. I jumped on the brake pedal (there was nowhere to go) and those BMW clamped down & stopped IMMEDIATELY! This would have not been an offset front end collision, this would have been a straight head on collision. If I had left 1 second earlier, not come to a full & complete stop @ the stop sign by my house... WOW! I think at the very least Id have been car shopping again or at the worst put BMW's crash worthiness to the test. Makes you think... WHAT ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH WAS THIS GUY DOING IN MY FREAKIN LANE?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    One of the things about crash avoidance, is the ability for the car to react as fast as you do. When you make the chassis faster than the speedometer, that can happen.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,455
    nyc....Glad to hear you're OK. BMW's brakes are excellent, as you found out.

    When my son turned 15, I taught him to drive on a manual transmission, not an automatic. I still had my track Mustang at the time and was irregularly taking it to the local track. And, I took him to Mid-Ohio for autox (myself and a friend set up and drove a Toyota FX16 there).

    Did any of it make him a better driver? I don't know. Those first couple of years, he actually had more tickets and accidents than I did at the same time in my driving career.

    And, when he got the chance, he went for an automatic vs a manual transmission car.

    The benefit of manual trans, if there is one, has faded over the years. First, the manual trans was used because they offered better fuel economy. That's simply not true today (with rare exceptions).

    As many of us can testify here (including yourself), today's automatics are miles away from where they used to be.

    On the track, or the highway, there's no way I can shift as quickly as the S-Tronic can. I hit the paddle shifters and the shift is firm and immediate.

    The auto/manual trans in your BMW, it will be in the right gear, at the right time, and do it quicker than you can.

    That offers more control over the car, not less.

    The higher up the performance and price ladder you go, the fewer and fewer manual transmissions you'll see. As was pointed out before, even Ferraris and Lambos are now sporting "manumatics". Most would agree that those are at the top of the heap when it comes to personal performance cars.

    Maybe somebody can make another thread to talk about manual transmissions, as in here, this has become derailed.

    kd....couldn't agree with you more.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 15,456

    2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4i Limited Tech (mine), 2013 Acura RDX (wife's) and 2007 Volvo S40 (daughters college car)

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,455
    stickguy.....cool. Thanks for that link. Now, there's somewhere to go for those who want to talk about types of transmissions.
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,185
    thanks stickguy- Graph can't wait to meet you on the board, "we get it"!!!!!!
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    edited June 2012
    You're an enthusiast if you own a "sport sedan" that has the weight, length, and wheelbase of a Chevy Equinox SUV, but you're a poseur if it doesn't have 3 pedals? :confuse:

    image
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,185
    Nice rig- does it come in stick?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,613
    You'll keep your blood pressure lower and live longer if you just scroll past posts from certain people.

    '13 Stang GT; '15 Fit; '98 Volvo S70; '14 Town&Country

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,455
    q......you're right. By now, you'd think I'd know better. Just scroll past.

    Fed....how about a 50 year old F-150 with 3 on the tree? Surely since that's a a sports vehicle since it offers all the "control" of a manual trans.
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,185
    Yeah you should just scroll past- instead of posting an adolescent rant full of false claims.

    F150 great pull, along with the Chevy equinox, enjoy the automatic s4 you bot with the accord trade in and is 63% yours and if your relationship with the "GF" goes sour it's yours- lets not forget anout the great dinner in chitown you see graphic I actually enjoyed the story- and still wish you well in the transaction and hope you enjoy the car- but the manual comments and jabs are a little much for a guy who has been posting for 15 years -
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    edited June 2012
    "how about a 50 year old F-150 with 3 on the tree?"

    The luxury companies should offer column mounted shifters. They require even more skill and driver involvement, and it would make room for more cupholders. :P
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 15,456
    and get rid of synchros. If you really want to be involved in the driving experience, a crash box is the way to go!

    2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4i Limited Tech (mine), 2013 Acura RDX (wife's) and 2007 Volvo S40 (daughters college car)

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,673
    Grapghic you are preaching to the choir, most races are won in the corners.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,673
    how about a 50 year old F-150 with 3 on the tree? Surely since that's a a sports vehicle since it offers all the "control" of a manual trans.

    A friend of mine's first car was a 1960 Ford Comet with a straight 6 and 3 (True drivers car) on the tree, it was a hand me down, first owned by his grandfather, then grandma and when she died, it went to my buddies brother, who had it until my buddy got his Chevy LUV truck, about 1978, my buddies brother tried to teach my buddy how to drive it, however, brothers will fight. So, I was asked to teach him. It was a tricky car to drive, but I have never seen, felt or heard the front and rear bumpers of a car hit the pavement from being bucked so bad as I did with this comet. At one point I was laughing so hard I couldn't stop laughing, plus I had whip lash... But we marched on and he finally mastered driving the damn thing...

    Talk about built to last, one night we hit a telephone pole with it (no questions about how it happened), scraped the front fender, but took a chunk from the telephone pole..

    Ford Comet 1 wooden telephone pole 0...

    FN
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,673
    GM build a great rock crusher tranny the M-22 nice one, who needs a clutch.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,455
    edited June 2012
    fed...stick...fn...I actually learned how to drive a manual on an Econoline Van my Father used in his business. Can't remember the year it was though. It was a "3 on the tree". Then I graduated to an F-150, with the long throw (and I do me looonnnnnng throw) floor shifter, in which you had to guess which gear it might end up. It might have had synchros at some point in its life. But they were gone by the time I jumped into the driver's seat. Lots of double clutching on that truck.

    Lots of control offered with those.... :P
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,563
    Drove several, back in the day.
    Even drove a '4 on the tree' once - a Peugeot -
    a mid-1960s 404, I believe.
    Odd.
    - Ray
    Happy now with 7 on the floor - and on the steering wheel...
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