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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,630
    Graphic I too was 1K with UA, left them end of last year.... PLT with AA and just made Chairman on US.

    BTW, how does one PM you?

    FN
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,213
    FN....I'd put my new emsil address here, but it was hacked the last time I did that.

    Kirstie, is there a way for us to PM each other using our number identifier in our profile?
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,867
    No, sorry. Can't think of another way. I kind of doubt that was the reason you were hacked - I've posted my email address ALL over the place and never had that happen. But, you can always split it up so it isn't easy to grab... like, my user ID is Coolhost1 and I use Yahoo. (not my real email address.)

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  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,213
    kirstie....OK....thanks.

    FN....my Edmunds name and Yahoo.

    There you go.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,432
    Yahoo just had hundreds of thousands of email addresses hacked... so, you weren't the only one...

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  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,407
    A reporter is interested in talking to someone who had trouble getting a car loan but finally had success within the last couple of months. If you fit this description, please contact pr@edmunds.com with a brief description of your experience and your preferred contact information by the end of day Tuesday, July 17, 2012.

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  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,213
    Kyfdx....well, that explains a lot.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Renting a Mondeo diesel with 6MT. Nice car - the new design looks really nice in person (like an Aston Martin married a Kia Optima), but man it is slow.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,630
    Hey Fed, which diesel engine does it have?

    On my flight yesterday from Raleigh-Durham to Detroit the guy sitting next to me was a Ford Engineer who is working on the New Fusion, he is waiting for the green light to bring over a diesel power fusion. He would like to see the 2.2l 200hp diesel come over, however, he thinks ford will choose the the 2l 160hp engine. Either way it will be good to see Ford give VW a run in the family sedan with a diesel. He was telling me all about the car, I haven't spoken to a car engineer that was so excited about a new product before. But the Mondeo is a 5 door if I'm not mistaken, right? So what are your thoughts on the overall car?
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    I don't know which diesel it is. The engine cover says Ford Duratorq, FWIW - no other info to be found in the car. Yes, it's a 5 door.

    There is some torque to be had between about 1800 and 3500 RPM, but nowhere else. Redline is 4500. If I had to put numbers on the car, my seat of the pants guess would be 0-60 in maybe 11 or 12 secs.

    Steering is light with little feedback, but the car tracks beautifully. Ride is Euro firm and compliant - much better than the current Fusion. Body roll and rebound are very tightly controlled. Clutch is light and shifter is effortless with short throws with a smidge of cable notchiness, but not in a bad way.

    The cabin is laid out very well with high quality materials and the cabin is very quiet on the highway - and I do mean quiet. The ride is serene with very little wind or road noise, and a very rigid chassis with zero flex. Squeaks and rattles are non-existent.

    I haven't pushed the car so I can't comment on sporting capabilities, but as a touring car, it is outstanding.
  • alltorquealltorque Posts: 535
    I don't know which diesel it is.

    Knowing how rental companies operate here in Europe it's probably the 1.8 TDCi engine rated at either 100bhp or 125bhp. Could be the 2.0 at 115bhp but unlikely to be anything more exotic. 0-60 for that bunch is, indeed, in the 11 to 12 seconds bracket.

    The other engines on offer in our Mondeo are 2.0 TDCi's with either 140 or 175bhp; the latter showing circa 8.4secs for 0-60. However, 0-60 dashes are not what diesels are about, really. Economy, stressless driving, good mid-range punch, (40-70 is usually pretty fair). The Mondeo is rated highly here in Europe and seen as a good, and cheaper, BMW 3 series competitor without the sporting pretentitions, (which in the case of the cooking-end of the 3 series really are pretentions). Glad you're enjoying it. :)
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    edited July 2012
    You're right, I am noticing that 0-60 really isn't important here because of the way the roads are designed here - and all the small towns one passes through.

    The registration paper I found says 1560 cc - don't know if it's accurate though. Yes, midrange pull isn't bad, and it got above 160 kph with little fuss.

    My only real complaint is the throttle response, which is very lethargic. It's as though the flywheel weighs 40 lbs. I'm sure it's programmed into the fly-by-wire, but it makes downshifting more difficult and heel-and-toe immpossible. It's the same effect I notice on many new cars I've driven.

    Other than that, a very nice car.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,138
    The new caddy that zigs. Hosts it's time to update the list of cars again."

    http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-cadillac-ats-first-drive-review
  • billyperksiibillyperksii Posts: 198
    I dont see any breakthrough here- same old Caddy with two poor choice of motors. Why even bother with the 3.6- the CTS has it.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,138
    Same old caddy? Did you read the article? It may be the same engine - but correct me if I'm wrong most cars here have engines recycled within a line- even the beloved Tl and BMW.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,630
    Bill, Caddy thinks the ATS is a 3series fighter, the interior room is smaller then the current 3 Series, the standard engine in the ATS only makes 202hp, BMW 240hp.

    This is what Caddy says about the ATS " 2.0L Turbo direct-injected four-cylinder 272HP engine providing a 0-60 time of 5.7 seconds and 32 MPG highway.2 A 6-speed automatic transmission is standard"

    OK the standard 2L turbo in the BMW only makes 240hp, but is faster 0-60 and getting better highway mileage, and comes with a 8 speed auto...

    Once again the caddy falls short, the 3.6l 0-60 is about the same as the turbo 4 in the BMW.... So the turbo 6 in the BMW is even faster and gets about the same mileage as the turbo 4 Caddy.. Not too sure I would be boasting these numbers since caddy says that ATS can hold itself up against the 3 series...

    I laugh that Caddy thinks the ATS is the same size as the 3 series but it is not, the interior volume is less, and also caddy thinks the CTS competes with the 5 series... Hardly.

    BTW, you can now build a ATS...

    Now I wonder how the ATS hold up against the G25 since that is what it should be crossed shopped to.
  • billyperksiibillyperksii Posts: 198
    edited July 2012
    No you are not wrong- put G on the list too.
    My point is, just another boring entry level car to add to the ever increasing list.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,431
    if you are in the 5s 0-60, that is fast by any measure. so haggling over .1-.2 seconds seems petty, and even statistically insignificant. and what is the MPG difference, 1 mpg?

    size wise, it has almost the identical footprint I thought? and some cars feel more or less roomy than the CG rating, depending on how they are laid out.

    at least they offer the V6, most likely for the customers that just won't do a 4 cyl.

    anyway, as this thread proves, there is a lot of personal opinion involved with this class of car, but from seeing one in person (at the auto show) and reading about them, it sounds like it very much is a strong competitor (probably with a little more American flavor), and that some people will like it and some won't.

    but I don't think you can use those few #s on paper to say it is a loser entry.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (daughter stole that one), and 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again)

  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,991
    Exactly. Gee, the Cad has more 30 more HP, a little more torque and weighs less than the 3(very little) so those are huge pluses on it's side, right? I don't think so. These very small differences don't mean beans....whichever side has the plus or minus.

    Love it when a brand new car comes out that nobody has driven or even sat in most cases and "decide" that a few small stats automatically make it a loser. Pretty close minded don't you think?
  • billyperksiibillyperksii Posts: 198
    I did not say the car is a loser- I just said BORING, nothing new under the sun, just another participant in this segment.

    The manufacturers need to take this segment to another level because the non-premium brands are offering the same features for far less than what the so call premium brands are offering.
    Case in point- my dealer wants me to trade up to the advance trim TL, his convincing points are, cooled seats, blind spot indicator, crisper NAV graphics and 6 speed auto-I told him the KIA Optima offers that for thousand less.
    With all that said, my pride hinders me from purchasing a KIA.
    I will just have to wait until 2014 to see what the next generation TL has to offer.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,991
    If you can't tell the differnece in quality by just sitting in a TL versus sitting in a Kia, then maybe you should be driving a Kia cause you would be satisfied with the cheap leather and the trinkets. The steering and suspension may suck on the Kia but gotta love that heated steering wheel. I miss that soooo much on my car.......NOT.

    I'm not really a fan of Cadillac or GM for that matter, but what is so boring about the new ATS? It looks like a baby CTS and I've never heard the CTS described as boring. A lot of other things, but not boring.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,138
    Good points- problem with alot of the anti caddy (or anything non BMW or Audi) posters its all about the Germans - they continue to boast about the great BMW any always bash with out any real substance behind it. The 1 or 2 mpg difference, or the size - come on guys it comes down to pricing -value should be considered - that's why consumer reports continues to rank the g (it's now in its 6th year as the number one car in the class). I have not priced this new caddy out but if it's priced right it should be considered. I love the boring comments - look at the cars on the right - the tsx is an accord, hello
  • billyperksiibillyperksii Posts: 198
    Not literally boring- just same old same old.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,991
    The way I look at these cars is that they all have their attributes which attract certain types of buyers(driving enthusiusts if you must). The Germans have great styling that stands the test of time and great suspensions. I would have added steering but not so much anymore. Japanese have great engines, cheaper TCO and nice bells and whistles. The Americans have good cars in this field and getting much better IMO and are kind of a combo of the Germans/Japanese. Regardless of what Hyundai/Kia is doing lately they don't really particpate that well in this field given their crappy suspensions, steering, and handling in general and cheaper(but flashy) ingredients. To some handling the curvies is more imporant than straight line power and to others the opposite and then some like a little of both. None are wrong and none are absolutely right!

    I know I forgot Volvo but are they Swedish or Chinese?...I'm not sure now. I probably missed something else too. Anyway, they all have things that are more important to the individual so to put one down because it doesn't fit into one's personal "vision" of a great ELLPS is silly.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,213
    Yeah....Cadillac has been hyping this car for awhile. The biggest issue with them, they've been touting their "BMW" killers for awhile now. Until very recently, they were anything but.

    Maybe this car changes that perception, maybe not.

    I've driven the CTS Coupe. It's a nice effort. Would I trade my BMW for it? Nope! I don't know what it is, Cadillac has the sort of "feel" that doesn't impress me (actually, all GMs have that "feel"). If the CTS didn't WOW me away from the BMW, I doubt the ATS will, either.

    That doesn't make it a bad car. I think it may sell well. But, those sales will go to people who wouldn't look at a BMW/Audi/Mercedes to begin with. The ATS will most likely capture the Buick owner (or maybe the Chevy person). Maybe that's exactly what GM wants. Their gateway car (Chevy) customers staying in the family, moving up (Buick) and finally to their top cars....Cadillacs.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,630
    edited July 2012
    M6, Caddy has building the hype for this car for a while, saying that the ATS will be able to overtake the 3 series and its build in the US. The only engine that was ever talked about was the turbo 4 and how much more power it makes over the BMW as well as price. Now come to find out there are 3 engines, and the starting price is less then the BMW, however, if you want the Turbo 4 the starting price is slight less then the base 3, the performance is less then the BMW, and the Caddy has a 6 speed auto and the BMW has an 8 speed auto, you can only get a manuel in the turbo 4 in the caddy all others is an auto (if memory serves me, this is a deal breaker for many of you.)

    Stick, the 335 is more then .5 sec quicker then the V6 ATS, and the ATS has more power. Also caddy hasn't released the 1/4 times yet either, I'm suspecting that the BMW's will be faster there too.

    I was hoping for more from the ATS, since with all it's hype that GM has been generating, but the performance numbers so far haven't been all that good for the kind of HP the car is making...
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,630
    Graphic all the hype has been taking owners away from BMW, that wont happy. I have rented a couple of CTS sedans and the interior space feels cramped to me, more so then a 3 series, so not too sure how the ATS is going to fare there. If the bigger brother is feels smaller, then the smaller ATS will be smaller..
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,630
    M6, I am far from an Anti Caddy person, in fact In the last month I have been trying to sway my partner to go look at the Buick LaCrosse, so far that hasn't been easy to do, and he is from Detroit.

    For the past 4 months I have waited for the ATS to be released and with more information, however, the hype I think was greater then what GM could product the first time out. Look how long it took caddy to get the CTS where it is today? I like the CTS, but not too sure how GM can say that the CTS is in the same league as an A6, 5 series or E class.... On paper it does, but the translation from paper to product didn't happen very well. I think the same thing is going to happen with the ATS.

    Regarding Kia and Hyundai the current crop of high end luxury cars is just the start, I bet they will get their cars dialed in faster then GM will.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,991
    I seem to recall a number of posters on this thread infering that 0-60 times weren't that important when a certain someone was relating how the G37 is so much faster 0-60 than the 3. Oh well, I guess when it fits one's argument it does matter. I could care less about the ATS and also don't care if a car is stick or auto, but I still say it's sad that so called auto enthusiusts are so close minded when a new car comes out and trash it before it's even been thoroughly tested or doesn't fit a particular mold. It's sad really.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,138
    edited July 2012
    M6 the name is sweendogy- Not certain someone. The elephant in the room- the guy who makes this channel work by posting relevant topics, thus causing discussion. (see above) Sure people don't agree with me, but I don't make up "points" - before I post I do homework.

    And I agree the german bias argument is old, sad, and it's rude. They make great cars but so do others - plus German cars come at a sizable premium. Remember this is Ellps- and if 50k is the new EL - I might be going Kia soon.

    The Tsx is still on the board- and according to c&d this caddy is a real player.
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