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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,467
    edited August 2012
    I've figured out a different way home from work that has much less traffic than my normal route. According to my 328xi's trip computer, my average speed is up from 34 to over 44 mph. My gas mileage has improved too. I usually average about 20.5 mpg. This tank I'm up to 22.5.

    Filled up one AM before work & jumped right on 95. When I got off the highway, I checked the TC while sitting at a traffic light. Average speed was 72 mph & average fuel economy was over 27 mpg.

    As I've said before, none of this matters because it still costs $60 - $70 to fill it up;)

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    edited August 2012
    When I had my TL SH AWD, I got about 18 MPG-19 MPG city. It fell down a little bit on the highway, getting 22MPG, or 23 MPG on a good day with nice weather.

    I realize that "real world numbers" can vary significantly for the "city" figure, depending upon how urban and stop and go the city driving actually is. But that 22-23 highway number you have quoted for your TL-AWD, unless its the Autobahn at an average speed into the triple digits, really sucks. I've never had a car that low, or even an SUV without a roof rack that low.

    My 2004 TL 6-speed is rated at 29 and will pretty consistently get 29-31 mpg at 70-75 mph for a 300+ mile highway drive.

    My former 2005 911S Cab, rated at 26, would consistently get 27+ on a similar highway drive, top up. 26+ top down.

    My former 2002 Honda S2000, rated at only 26, never got less than 28 and managed 32-33 on a few tankfuls cruising at 72-75.

    Even our 2005 MDX gets 23-24 on the highway, as long as we don't have bicycles on top. On our trip to and from North Carolina last week (1,200 miles total, including the week we were there), with two bicycles on the roof coming and going, averaged just under 20 (19.7).

    None of my numbers are read from a trip computer or for a short stretch. They are calculated by me filling up before and after, for trips that are at least 250-350 miles.

    On the other hand, all of our "city" mpg's suck no matter what we drive - welcome to DC.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,111
    edited August 2012
    Real world Mpgs in the g stink - 16 all in 90% city.
    Graph remember the battles on the TL board-

    Any update on the information request above - or was that a general statement/ opinion?
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,602
    My 330 gets 27 on the highway at 70.

    My 2000 Vette would get 27-29 on the highway, got to love a V8 that lops along at 1500 at 70 MPH..

    Partners Rogue gets 26 on highway

    Neighbors 2007 335i gets 27 on the highway, this is doing 65.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,602
    Infiniti has issues with the real world MPG of their cars, a friend had a M35, he traded in a BMW 530i for it, loved the car, had the MPG, the best he got on road trips was 23 on the highway.. He would get 27 with the 530i.. Even today the G and M do not deliver very good MPG.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    got to love a V8 that lops along at 1500 at 70 MPH.

    No thanks, and no offense, but the Corvette is, in many ways for me, the epitome of GM's screwed up engineering. It takes them twice as many liters of displacement to get the same power as Porsche or Ferrari, then they throw in a transmission that has to be downshifted into 4th gear to achieve terminal velocity? And, just so they don't get hit with a gas guzzler tax, they make that super tall 6th gear feel like you are lugging a locomotive?

    I was happy getting 27+ mpg at 70 mph at 2,500 rpm in 6th gear in my old 911 without having to play games with gear ratios.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,111
    Would have to say that statement for me could be the complete opposite on how I look at corvette at all. Twice as many liters, gearing (downshift) who cares you can get a vette for a third of the price if you are going to compaire them with Porsche and the Italians. Bad argument on so many levels - if you are going to bash gm the corvette is the wrong car to use as a reference. Enjoy the 911 and stick to talking about poor Mpgs in the mdx
  • hclllhclll Posts: 35
    Hi guys I am looking at the Audi A4 but I feel like I have to sit pretty low to get enough headroom without reclinging the seatback too much.

    I had 2 BMW 5 series and test drove a new F30 3 series they all seem to have bigger headroom than A4. Just wonder if you guys experienced the same, or it was my false impression....
  • I have a friend at work who has the 2009 A4-He is about 5"10", honestly, he looks like Mr.Incredible driving the A4.
    Literally he looks as if he is bending his neck to see the road and this is no exaggeration.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,467
    I posted about a friend of mine in South Fla who had a nice A4 3.2 S-Line that was totalled by either a large puddle or brilliant VW engineering.

    He originally started out looking for a CPO G37S Sedan. After speaking to him and raving about my 328xi, he decided to add a CPO 335i Sport Pkg to his short list. He was disappointed by the high asking prices of '09s & many dealers unwilling to budge off their asking prices. He got 1 place to come down $1000, but that was still over $4K over auction value. A dealer called him back and told him of a 2011 335i Sport Auto. The car is a 2011 Saphire Black/Black 335i Sedan w/ sport, premium, cold weather, navigation, automatic... Executive demo w/ 7,000 miles on it. MSRP of over $52K. He paid $37,500 + TTL. My friend has quickly forgotten about his beloved Audi. I hear the excitement in his voice when he tells me how much he LOVES everything about his 335i.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Your friend got a very good deal!
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,467
    He really did get a fantastic deal. Over $14,000 off sticker for a car with 7,000 miles. He even called 2 other dealers to see if they had any 2011 executive demos & they both told him to take the deal he was offered. He essentially paid what I paid (the capitalized cost of my lease) for my 328xi.

    He had looked at a few '09s. A dealer had one with 15K miles and was asking $35K. Another dealer had an '09 with 32K miles listed for $31K.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,295
    wonder if south Florida, August, and Black over black had anything to do with it?

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • hclllhclll Posts: 35
    I am 6'2 and have a longer torso, so it would be a problem to find a comfortable driving position in the new A4 right?

    Also did u guys notice the Audi dashboard is kinda of high, not like BMW's that is low in the sight?
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    That's a good deal - but it also reminds me that I need to collect my "finder's fee" from my friend that I referred to BMW of Towson. They had a brand new (not demo) 535i 6-speed manual, sport package, etc. etc. with a sticker of $60,000+. They had it listed on their website as a "special" for several months at $50,900. I told him to hand them a check for $45k and dare them to rip it up. They did the deal in late June at $45,500.

    Unfortunately, Towson didn't have any remaining allocations for build to order 2012 X5d's, so I had to order ours from another dealer. But the sales manager was pretty good natured about it - said I can always come in and buy something from their sister Porsche dealer at $5,000 over MSRP to make up for the loss they took on my "hardball" friend.

    Reaffirms my belief that there are always good deals out there if you are willing to shop around..
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I have a friend who is 6'4", 210+/- and he drives an 2011 A5. Loves it. I would have thought the A4 would provide similar head and leg room, but maybe not. You might want to go back and re-check for yourself.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    edited August 2012
    "Reaffirms my belief that there are always good deals out there if you are willing to shop around.."

    Especially if you're not in a hurry, willing to walk away, drive 400 miles, and/or settle for options/colors that aren't your first (or even third) choice.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,665
    You really need to check it out. Some people prefer a upright position, some like to lean back.

    I'm a similar height and I fit fine in any of the A4's from 1996 to the current one.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,295
    I was fine with your first 3 conditions. My wife violently objected to the last one (options/colors!)

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Yup, that's usually how it is...
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Yup, that's usually how it is...

    But....I don't think you need to (or should) go as far as to "settle" for your third (or worse) choice of color and options if you plan ahead and are willing to do the other three things.

    Acura makes it easy. Limited "trim" choices and color choices with almost no options to begin with. Find a dealer with a big inventory that has great deals. Other brands, with long option lists, are a little tougher. But, my recent experience with BMW proved to me that custom ordering from a dealer - which I always assumed meant paying a higher price than taking a car off the lot - may in fact produce the best results, long term. We had to shop around to a dozen or more dealers to find one that still had allocation spots for a 2012 X5d, but in the end, found one willing to negotiate a price that was within a few hundred (compared to invoice) of the best deal we could have gotten for a "leftover" vehicle on the lot. But, by ordering to our exact specs, we also didn't get stuck with a few options we didn't want, which ended up putting us ahead in the end.

    If and when I get another "fun" car, I will in all likelihood order a Porsche rather than take one of the lot. Trying to find my color and option preferences, given the ridiculous list of choices from Porsche, is a near fruitless exercise. And I'd rather shop around for a dealer willing to give me a 6-7% discount on a custom order than compromise my preferences to take a car off the lot (like I did in 2005) at a 11% discount, but one that had a lot of options that I didn't want and didn't have a couple that I now know I would like.

    A friend of mine who used to work for Audi (corporate, not dealer) indicated that, even though Audi is achieving record sales and many dealerships are low on inventory, you can still order one at or below invoice due to incentives and their desire to continue to increase sales vs. BMW and Mercedes.

    There is a saying in my business (real estate development) that a great deal on a fair property is not as good as a fair deal on a great property. For my friend that got lucky with a 535i manual transmission, he got the best of both worlds. But for most of us, I think I'd rather shop really hard for the car I wanted, and not be stuck with my third or fourth choice color and the wrong options for the next 6-7-8+ years.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,149
    hclll....most of the regulars here already know what I own. But, I drive an '11 335ix coupe, while the girlfriend drives an Audi S4 (majorly juiced A4). I'm 5'10" and 190 lbs. The girlfriend is 5'3" and about 125 lbs. I actually find her Audi to be more comfortable and easier to see out of than my 335i. She drives my car as much as she drives her car (and vice versa). I've never heard her complain either way....although, I'm glad both cars have memory seats.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,602
    The V8 in the Vette I own as well as current Vettes are what makes the car. NOt too sure what you mean by, Play games with the gear ratios? Drop it down to 3rd, and watch most car disappear in the rear view mirror. Remember, according to some, only real car enthusiasts gets manuals! I really liked my Vette, however, mine must have been a Monday car, as it wasn't screwed together very well...
  • I am coverting my fog lights to HID and I wanted to know if I need"RELAY HARNESS" to do this?
    I ordered the kit yesterday so I am still in the dark about these RELAYS.
    Remember, this is for a 2009 TL AWD.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,295
    being able to wait should eliminate the settling issue.

    The internet makes it real easy to shop around. In a fe minutes, I found the dealer that seems to be hoarding all the ones we want (first choice color and interior). They have 3, no one else seems to have any! But, they are about 2 hours away.

    so my choice now is, take a ride, or just wait for a local dealer to get one.

    of course, the far away guy is also way lower on price.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    edited August 2012
    What I meant was that, in order to achieve respectable EPA highway ratings for the Corvette, GM made the final (two, I believe) gear ratios so tall that they are effectively idling at 65 mph and don't play any part in the use of the car as a sports car - i.e. what you basically have is a 4-speed manual with 2 overdrive gears. And that, for a variety of reasons, just doesn't appeal to me as something I would ever claim was great engineering. At least when Porsche decides to add a tall highway ratio like they did this year, they put it in as a 7th speed and leave the first 6 as before and perfectly matched to the engine output.

    I don't want to turn this into a GM bashing string, but here's what I see when I look at "precision engineering":

    Z06 Corvette vs. 911S
    7.0 liters vs. 3.8 liters
    505 hp vs. 400 hp
    470 ft.lbs vs. 325 ft.lbs
    15/24 EPA vs. 18/27 EPA
    Slower vs. faster acceleration (to 60-100)
    Slower vs. faster around "The Ring"
    Higher vs. lower top speed (in 4th vs. 6th)
    $76,000 vs. $96,000

    You can essentially do the same comparison for the ZR1 vs. 911 Turbo.

    I don't dispute that the Corvette is a lot of raw performance for the money. I just think that it appeals to those that prefer "raw" to refined. Everything is done by increasing the quantity - engine size, tire size, etc. And they still fall short of the 911 on everything that matters to me for a nimble handling high performance sports car. The fact that a 911S or Turbo costs $20-30k more than the comparable Corvette model may make them "expensive" to some, but I'd rather have the "cheap" 911S than the $15k more expensive ZR1 any day. I'm not going to be too disappointed that I am a few tenths slower in the quarter mile or a few MPH short in top speed. At least I will have a car engineered to get the absolute most out of less, and is "screwed together" very well. (Something that I am also going to consider when I cast my presidential vote this fall). :)
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,111
    "No thanks, and no offense, but the Corvette is, in many ways for me, the epitome of GM's screwed up engineering. "

    sounds like a ringing endorcement for the brand to me..

    while I agree the higher ("expensive") priced 911 is a better all around car-- its still considerably more "expensive"-

    couple of questions- i see you used a select use of comparion data- why the select group, ie no 0-60?.. other question is the "" around expensive- whats that supposed to mean?? a 25% premium (w/o options) from one car to the other, when comparing such cars seems regular, no "" expensive to me
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I was making reference to 0-60 in my "faster acceleration to 60 and on up to 100+/-" I know you are a stickler for hard data, but to be honest, I'm going off of memory of comparison tests by R&T, C&D, etc, whereby the Corvette had considerably difficulty starting from a standstill without spinning its wheels. I do know the new 911S has been independently tested at 3.7 seconds to 60, but would have to do some research to get a reference. Same is true for the turbo, which at 2.8+/- was the second fastest (0.1 behind the Veyron) ever tested. Not that any of this matters to me personally. Anything under about 4.5 is more than I need or care to pay for.

    Which brings me to the "expensive" quotes. I respect that for some people, $75k is expensive and for others $135k isn't so much so, compared to the $2 million plane they are eyeballing. I am a heck of a lot closer to the former than the latter. But for me, a $96k 911S (the cheaper Porsche) would be far more rewarding to drive and own than the $110k ZR1 (most expensive Corvette). Hell, knock the "S" off the 911 and save another $12k and it wouldn't change my mind.

    I just don't find the GM engineering of the Corvette is particularly inspiring or compelling. Not that I'm a German snob and don't think the U.S. is capable of it - in fact, I have a deposit on a Tesla Model S and may very well be driving my first American car in 25+ years by next February.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,111
    "I have a deposit on a Tesla Model S and may very well be driving my first American car in 25+ years by next February. "

    that being said, what are you doing in the ELLPS chat talking mpgs in the MDX?

    please limit the use of quotes in your response :D
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,602
    The interesting thing about the Vette v 911 is the person who is shopping a Vette isn't shopping for a 911, they are completely different cars. The Vette rings America, Big V8, baritone exhaust tone, flat torque curve. Now while the Vette is "idling" at 65 the car does pick up speed nicely while in 6th gear.

    Your argument is interesting, however, one needs to remember, when cruising along the highway, why does the car need to be revving at 3K. The owner just has to go down to 3rd gear and be gone.. Not a hard thing to do.

    Price a base model vette can be had for 45K, while the base price 911 is 86K. Not too sure if the extra money is worth the extra performance.
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