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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,642
    After months of looking and driving and fretting over a car, my partner FINALLY decided on one. Now, it's not a BMW, or Audi, or MB nor is it a Infiniti. However, the Infiniti M was scratched off his list very early. After an interesting week in Charlotte on my way home (have to love WiFi while flying) my partner tells me he finally chosen a car and will tell me about it after he picks me up at the airport. So for the next 3 hours I was trying to figure out what it was, so upon arriving in phoenix I narrowed it down to 3, Hyundai Genesis 3.8, Ford Taurus (eco boost 2.0L, 2013) and lastly VW Passt SE TDI. Not too sure why I thought the Hyundai but I did.. After getting my check bagged, I meet him at the usual spot on on the north side arrival by entrance 8. He is hungry, I'm not, had a good dinner on the flight but went out anyhow. So after a few conversation about things that happened with both us, I told which car he decided on... I get this look and reaction, "how in the hell did you know..." I laughed, but wasn't too sure which one, but had to guess again, so I went with the Hyundai, Genesis, turned out not to be the V6, but the V8 4.6. So at dinner he explained why he went with it and it all makes sense.... He loves cars, but not in the same sense as I do, he doesn't drive his cars hard at all...

    MSRP, $45,798, sale price $37,990, it is a 2012, White with Cashmere leather interior, and for 2012 all 4.6L Genesis came fully loaded. Granted it doesn't handle like a BMW, or have the "bling" of the MB or the style of Audi, but what it does have is VALUE... We picked the car up on Sat, and drove up to Prescott, AZ. Have to save, was impressed with the dealership and how smoothly the transaction was and how the salesman went over every item on the car with Rick. I was impressed with how it drove, seats are very comfortable, and handled the mountain roads with no issue. My partner likes BMW's and Audi's, but he couldn't justify the price of a 528 or A6 and he doesn't tackle the round abouts (or jug handles as they are called in Jersey) like I do, but he wanted all the luxury and room in the back seats for his clients. So the out the door price was just little over $40K, not too sure how anyone could pass up this deal (Yes I know some of you would without thinking twice.) The same dealer has a couple of Equus they had one on the showroom, MSRP $61,000, sale price $50K...
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    Good stuff- who would of thought a Korean auto maker could be cross shopped against the Germans and gain a sale- huge strides for the company as a whole - enjoy the rig
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Interesting, my marketing director is seriously considering the Equus as a replacement for her E-class. Her priority is luxury and space, as she often is driving clients around and, according to her, the Equus has a back seat that is closer to an S class than an E class in size and comfort. Her husband, a retired Navy pilot and much more of a driving enthusiast, couldn't be pried out of his older generation M5 with a crowbar. When he drove the Equus, he picked it apart relative handling, braking and precision relative to the German alternatives. But she's looking at the comfort, space and VALUE - and willing to give Hyundai a chance. Plus the dealer is willing to give her the car for an entire week to test drive.

    My guess is that the Equus will get a few more Infiniti and Lexus buyers to consider it than Audi or BMW buyers, but either way, Hyundai has come a long way since those shaky early years.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,642
    As I posted My partner looks at value first and foremost., this is his car, now if I had a say, the car of choice would have been a 550i, and I would have made up the difference for him. One thing people need to remember is, when Infiniti and Lexus hit our shores, the mindset was the same, who would shop a Japanese car and MB...
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,662
    Congrats on the new ride! Best of luck to you with it! A V8, RWD, sedan for $40K is a good deal! Keep us informed of how you like it!

    Powered By Honda2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,642
    While at the dealership picking up the car, I sat in the Equus and the first thing that came to my mind was, space, front seat and backseat has lots of it. After speaking to a salesmen for the Equus (not all Hyundai salesmen can sell the Equus) Hyundai brought that car over here to show that it is serious about luxury cars. In Korea people who have them have a driver, the owner doesn't drive them. It is an interesting car..

    For the money, the Genesis have plenty of room in the back (more then an E Class) and has all the bell's and whistles then a base E class has.

    So far reliability hasn't been a problem for either car which is something that MB and at times BMW can not say. So it should be interesting to see how well this car holds up.
  • The edgy-cool styling of the Hyundai's is starting to look a little dated. It is not classic styling that lasts but for a few years - often the problem with Asian designs, more derivative than creative. Good deals for the people who are into the moment and in that price range though.
  • Not Acuras- they stand the test of time. :)
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,642
    Interesting, since the Genesis sedans aren't edgy in design but very much conservative.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,642
    They gave him more on his trade in then I figured they would, so over all it was a great deal...
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,854
    Interesting, since the Genesis sedans aren't edgy in design but very much conservative.

    I would presume wireless is referring to the Sonata. I have to agree. IIRC, I posted elsewhere that the styling would be dated rather quickly.

    The issue with the edgy styling is that it needs refreshing more often. For instance the Sonata design language was updated for the Azera and IMHO, the Azera is a very handsome vehicle.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,642
    I knew what wireless was talking about however, he didn't mention that in his post.

    I agree I was taken how nice the Azera was in person, I believe the Azera wont get old looking too quickly and easy to update...
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Billy, you are way too young to be an authority on "the test of time".

    I saw something that looked like my old 1987 Acura Integra on the road the other day and almost threw up. But our neighbor has a 1985 MB 300D that, in addition to refusing to die in spite of billowing black smoke at 400k miles, still doesn't look all that bad at only a few years younger than you.
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    Not that my opinion means much- but I think the styling of the genesis will hold up well after the years pass. It's got styling from both Lexus and MB. It's understated yet elegant - love the looks of the exterior - the interior specifically the shifter and nav look a little dated already but from the outside this car is a nice looker- flight you should of talked your partner into getting a "r" type.

    All in all a great value
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    On the company website it looks like they streamlined the line a bit - 2012 had 5 options, 2013 only 2 with the 3.8 and the grand daddy 5.0 r type. Wonder if the other options will be added late- or gone forever
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,642
    The dealer didn't have any Spec R's and I doubt he would have gone for it if they did.

    I drove the car to Tuscon to see a client, cruise was set at 75, i averaged 25.6 mpg, on a very green engine. EPA rates the car at 26 on the highway.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Say it ain't so.....cruise control on a green engine????

    Not sure what Hyundai told you, but on all of my past four new cars (Acura, Acura, Porsche and BMW) that was the one consistent thing that everybody said (and was in the owners manual): Do not use cruise control in the first 1,000 miles and if you have a long highway drive, vary the speed and engine rpms. My friend with the 535i manual is also a mechanical/nuclear engineer and gave me his interpretation as to why it is critically important that engine parts run at different speeds so as not to have single points of contact during early break in. My non-stop 510 mile trip back from Spartanburg in our new X5d was a test of discipline not to use cruise, but I varied the speeds between 60 and 80 and still averaged 29.4 mpg.

    You may want to check the owners manual on the Genesis, but I'd be surprised if what's being recommended for everything else wouldn't also apply to it.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,854
    ...Cadillac ATS at the dealer. 3.6L Performance AWD with every box ticked for options. It stickered at over $54K. A fellow sports dad is the sales manager at the dealer and he showed it to me. He hadn't driven it yet but his sales people had and it was a rocket.

    He said they ordered this first one with everything to show folks what is offered. He expected some entry priced units shortly. I asked him to order a turbo standard with the 6 speed so I could try it but he smiled and asked for a deposit. He knows the 7 of us who want a stick will probably order one!!
  • Not too young- look around next time, even the Vigors look sturdy as well as the 1st generation TL- I guess it depends on the owner, my TL turned 3 years this past August (and strangers tell me they think its a new car)and I see the exact TL's at the dealer getting oil changes looking pretty beat up.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,662
    While I'm sure that ATS looked nice, at $54K? No thank-you. It might find a buyer with $12K off sticker + 0% for 60 months + scheduled maintenance included during a GM "red tag sale event."

    Powered By Honda2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD

  • Or shell out 2K grand more and get an A6 Prestige (with some haggling involved).
    ATS for 54K- thats some serious price overlap.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    I just built an ATS (2.0L Turbo) with 6-speed MT, moonroof, and heated seats for an MSRP of $36,000. That's $2500 less than a similarly equipped 328i.

    270 hp, 33xx lb curb weight, and dimensions almost exactly the same as the 3 series. Impressive - I'm looking forward to seeing and driving one.
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    Lawman I haven't priced it out but if that's the case 2500 bux is a huge nut- wait 6 months and with discounts your prob over 5k in savings.. I haven't read enuf about the car to truly spike my interest, but the commercials are cool - plus only one caddy dealer I know up here I think still has a few new Cinerons on the lot as 1988 leftovers
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I am unfamiliar with the ATS, but....you might want to consider resale value before you reach any conclusion as to whether it is a good deal compared to a 328i.

    In my area at least, a 3-4-5 year old used Cadillac has almost no market appeal compared to a well maintained BMW. So, unless you are planning to keep one for 8+ years such that resale value isn't a significant factor, I think the $2,500 savings up front would translate into a huge negative difference in resale in 3-4 years. Perhaps it's different in other parts of the country, but that's the way it is in the DC area.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,662
    Habitat - while that is true & I have the utmost respect for your knowledge & opinions, I buy cars for ME & not the next guy. There's always some excuse that the dealer comes up with at trade in time anyway. When I traded my Black/Black 2010 TSX Tech (49,000 miles) back in March, I got $19,000 for it. Now Acuras are supposed to have high resale value, my car was a desirable color combo, had the tech pkg (NAV, backup camera, upgraded stereo...), was a 4 cyl (good on gas), automatic, 8/10 exterior, 9/10 interior... I had a dealer offer me $16K (that's 50% depreciation in 2 years). He told me there was an 80 day supply of TSXs. When I told him that only 4 had crossed the auction block with Tech Pkg, he fired back that the NAV wasn't that desirable.

    Powered By Honda2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,261
    FN....congratz to your partner, i've driven the Genesis a couple of times. The V8 was very impressive given the price. Nice deal, too!
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,642
    I had to watch my speed, I caught myself doing 95, the DPS (highway Patrol) really patrol I-10 between Casa Grande and Tuscon. The car isn't breaking a sweet at 95... I'm sure the owners manual doesn't recommends using the cruise either,
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,642
    Hey Graphic thanks, he is very proud of it, he had his first clients in the car, the couple have a new 2013 E350. At first the husband wasn't too sure what car Rick had, at the end of the tour, the husband asked Rick, the husband was impressed, as the husband told Rick he has owned a MB for the last 25 years.

    I think he made the right choice...
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,642
    The Vigors was a lesson learned by Acrua... Stupid name, and it looked too much like an Accord on the inside, and the interior screamed HONDA....
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    edited September 2012
    NYC,

    Haven't checked KBB or other sources, but $19k for a 2010 TSX with 49,000 miles doesn't seem terrible, given that Acura is discounting the heck out of their new cars now. I just got another e-mail from Pohanka Acura indicating they would give me $9,300 of a brand new 2012 TL SH-AWD (manual or auto), which works out to around $36k. I have to believe that Acura's aggressive pricing on new cars would affect resale values of 2-3 year old, higher mileage ones. A used TSX Tech for $20k such as yours looks pretty good when a new TL AWD TEch is listed at $44k. Not so much when the TL can actually be bought for $36-37k. Not sure what the situation was in March.

    But I still think Acuras and BMWs hold their value much better than Cadillacs in our area. I fully concur with you that you should buy a car for YOURSELF and not the next guy, but for others that were comparing vehicles and looking at a $2-4k difference in price up front (only 5-10%), considering resale may help justify (or not) the initial price difference.

    And or those that don't care about resale because they might keep the car for 6-8 years, I think its also worth checking out older versions of what they are considering and see how they hold up. Just yesterday, a friend of mine picked me up in his 2002 Mercedes C320 with 190,000 miles. It looks and drives like its just nicely broken in. He mentioned that his wife's Escalade, after 4 years and 50,000 miles shows much more age with rattles, uneven leather wear, chrome pitting on the grill, etc. They bought the Escalade in 2008 as a result of getting what looked like a great deal compared to a Mercedes. Now, they are likely to give all of the savings back on a miserable trade in for a new GL.
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