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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,810
    Interesting since Fiat owns Alfa, and Fiat wants to make a big push here in the US, I'm we are going to see some of those Italian sedan state side. I had a friend who had a GTV-6 great car...

    Alfa has been threatening to return to North America for about 5 years now. They keep pushing the date back.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,620
    Alfa has been threatening to return to North America for about 5 years now. They keep pushing the date back.

    Perhaps that's because they realize that most of their current products do not live up to the standards set by the Alfas we recall so fondly. In that case it's best that they do right rather than right away. :shades:

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,317
    Alfa has been threatening to return to North America for about 5 years now. They keep pushing the date back.

    oh, its been going on much longer than that. I definitely remember reading about their return back in 2000.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,145
    Alfas already here boys - go to the dodge dealer and ask to see /Alfa_Romeo_Giulietta_- or as we know it here the new dart. Enjoy
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    I was the proud owner of a 79 Spider. It was a fun car and i loved it, but i wouldnt say i was impressed with the standards set by Alfa.

    Quality an reliability were not Alfa hallmarks.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,620

    Quality an reliability were not Alfa hallmarks.


    That's true enough but they made up for it with character and style, something sorely lacking in most modern cars (including the current FWD Alfas). A sport sedan with modern build quality and old-fashioned responsiveness and feel may be elusive or even impossible but we can dream can't we?

    If not Alfa, who, or are we condemned to overweight blandly styled luxo-boats instead of real sports sedans? :(

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • Skoda Octavia vRS TSI is worth a look - or would be if VW Group would sell it in your part of the known universe. :cry:

    Review attached for the gasser 5-door Hatch. It also comes in Estate form and both body styles are also available with 2.0 TDi, of course. It's fun, chuckable and very roomy. Too big ? Search for the Skoda Fabia vRS - 170bhp of 1.4 ltr gasser fun in a 5-door hatch body. :shades:

    Skoda Octavia vRS TSI
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,620
    edited December 2012

    Skoda Octavia vRS TSI is worth a look - or would be if VW Group would sell it in your part of the known universe


    They do not sell it here of course, nor are they likely to, but my real problem with it is my belief that any real sport sedan has to have RWD. AWD might be acceptable if it mimics the dynamics of a RWD car but I have no interest in any FWD car larger than a Golf.

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    edited December 2012
    There is the Miata, BR-Z, RX-8, Boxster/Cayman, and Elise/Exige.

    But i agree, new cars dont compare in dynamics and feel to older cars. But its complicated. Older cars give more feel and feedback and are more fun and rewarding to drive, but this is partly because they have less rigid bodies and lower handling limits.

    Different driving experience. For 99% of drivers, new cars are faster and safer.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,452
    man, I would love to see a variant on the BRZ that was more practical. Stretch it a little and have a wagon style body.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (daughter stole that one), and 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again)

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    edited December 2012
    The WRX is a good choice there.

    The TSX Wagon with a 6-speed manual would be cool too...
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,566
    TSX Wagon is 5 Speed auto only.

    Speaking of the next WRX, when is that coming out? Subaru is still selling the previous body style 1 year into the new body style Impreza.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,620
    There is the Miata, BR-Z, RX-8, Boxster/Cayman, and Elise/Exige.

    Oh, I will acquire a Boxster eventually but none of those are performance sedans.

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,500
    My understanding is there are no plans to make WRX from current new Impreza body, so who knows when new WRX comes. Lots of different rumours, nothing of substance.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    When you own a boxster, you wont need a "performance sedan."
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    When you own a boxster, you wont need a "performance sedan."

    That's what I am trying to convince myself of in contemplating placing an order on a new Cayman S. i.e. That if I get it, my 2004 Acura TL 6-speed will be good enough for another 5 years. Otherwise, I might end up with a 2013 M3 at near giveaway prices.

    I will say that when I had my 911, my Acura TL was more enjoyable to drive then. I didn't feel like it needed to go beyond it's capabilities to be satisfying. It's a damn nice, economical to own, sporty sedan; if not an all out "performance sedan". And I could let the guy next to me in his 550i rev his engine without feeling inferior - knowing that I had a car in the garage that could run circles around it. Now the only other gas powered things in my garage are a lawnmower, leaf blower and chainsaw. Although I have to admit, the chainsaw fills a bit of my need to be manly, at a considerably lower cost than the 911 did.

    So if you need to save up for a Boxster, maybe get a chainsaw in the interim? I recommend the Husquevana Rancher 460.
  • Hey Hab-Are you inferring to my pending purchase (550), with a chip installed I think I will be able to take you. :)
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Oh no, are we digitally drag racing again??

    A new 911S scoots to 60 in 3.5 to 3.9 seconds depending upon who's holding the stopwatch. Couple of clicks faster than the M5.

    But go ahead and get that 550i and chip. I'm almost ready to pull the trigger and order the new Cayman S. That should be a good race. As long as it's in a straight line.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,582
    0-60 might be the worst reason to pick one car over another...

    I'd take a minimally-optioned Cayman S stick-shift over a Nissan GT-R, and enjoy myself for another second on the way to 60 (and, save $25K...)

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    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,145
    Whatever happened to the down payment on that fisker ?

    I would also agree the chainsaw is a manly tool- prob more so then a boxer –
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    edited December 2012
    Whatever happened to the down payment on that fisker ?

    It was a Tesla, and they still have it while I am contemplating my options. Get weekly e-mails reminding me that it's time to build my Model S. I don't think it will happen.

    I would also agree the chainsaw is a manly tool- prob more so then a boxer –

    Boxers are either dogs or shorts. But, IMO the new Boxster S is a lot manlier than the old model. On the other hand, the new Cayman S has got my complete, nearly undivided, attention. Play the video in this teaser (hit overview and scroll down to "video"):

    Porsche Cayman S
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    0-60 might be the worst reason to pick one car over another... I'd take a minimally-optioned Cayman S stick-shift over a Nissan GT-R

    I would agree. The new Cayman S is likely the best handling Porsche this side of a $400,000 Carrera GT. I am pretty much sold. Dealer here has offered me his first slot, to be delivered in April. Will likely pay full MSRP and maybe get a free Porsche logo hat thrown in. Ah well, I like a deal but I'd rather have this car.

    And If I cut my brains out in a chainsaw accident and wake up wanting to turn the Cayman into a Nissan GT-R, that can be done. Simply get a turbo kit that takes it to 480hp and throw 2-3 large farm animals in the hatch to take the weight up from 2,900 lbs to 2+ tons. In which case, you, Billy, Sweeny and everyone else here has authority to shoot me and put me out of my misery.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,317
    edited December 2012
    0-60 might be the worst reason to pick one car over another...

    Oh, come on. We can think of way worse reasons. :P

    To be perfectly honest, though, acceleration is near the top of my comparison list, but its obviously not the only yardstick.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,145
    Can't argue the passion for driving and wanting a great handeling manual trans sports car. The Gtr is in another class being a super car- the boxters are real nice drivers car. Good luck on the purchase but do me a favor and never pay list.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    The Gtr is in another class being a super car-

    Don't want to get too far off track here, but have you ever driven a GT-R? I have and other than flooring the accelerator, there isn't much "super" about the experience for me. Not to be crude or sexist, but buying one would be like picking a wife or girlfriend based solely on maximum bust size. Without regard to the fact that you get an enormous waist and butt to go along with it. The GT-R is ugly outside, ugly inside and has a curb weight closer to a Porsche Cayenne than a Porsche Cayman. Yes, the performance numbers are good, but the two tons and AWD completely eliminate sense of visceral, nimble handling on public roads. "Super car" to me is a term to reserve for a GT-3 or 458.

    I hope not to pay full MSRP on the Cayman S, but, as with real estate, it's better to get only a fair deal on a great car than a great deal on only a fair car.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,145
    I have not had the luxury to drive the worlds best Nissan. But in my eyes and the journalist it is- as this recent article will suggest

    http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-68906135/

    As they say in big business - paying retail is for s@@kers
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    edited December 2012
    As they say in big business - paying retail is for s@@kers

    Well if you were lucky enough to be one of the few hundred buyers to pick up a brand new Ferrari 430 or 458 at the MSRP, you could have driven it for a year, sold it and bought a GT-R with the profit. Of course, that would get you quickly knocked off Ferrari's "A" list for future purchases. Me, that's not a list I'll soon - or ever - be on.

    I hope this makes you almost as happy as me - I just put a deposit on a 2013/4 Cayman S at a discount off MSRP, and am #1 on their list for a customer ordered car. Porsche won't take the order for another few weeks and I won't get the car before April, but I think my shopping is over.


    Regarding the GTR, if you must have 0-60 in under 3 seconds for $100k, my choice would be to buy a 2-3 year old pre-owned 911 Turbo S. The only thing that will get you to 60 quicker is a Bugatti. The Porsche is a little more refined for my tastes. And doesn't look like it was created by an uncooperative committee of Nissan designers that used the Plymouth Barracuda for inspiration. Plus, Porsche still believes in offering manual transmissions - an unfortunate rarity in the world of supercars.

    http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1206_nissan_gt_r_black_edition_vs_por- - - - sche_911_turbo_s_comparison/viewall.html
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,145
    Bit all over the place- the 911 Turbo prob a better car- but again it's 70k more. That's a huge chunk of change- and in terms of % of MsRP difference you could by a boxter as a daily driver if you wanted.

    Congrats on the order and nice work paying less then sticker.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,633
    I have and other than flooring the accelerator, there isn't much "super"

    And what track did you drive this GT-R?

    How about this...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUM4fM-85ZM

    BTW, this video shows just how fast the GT-R is around a race track since it broke the record on this lap..

    Not bad for porky car..

    To fair, the GT-R is an amazing car for the speed and handling the the car can do for its weight.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Note that I said 2-3 year old pre-owned 911 Turbo S. The Turbo's depreciate at a faster rate than the GT-3 - as further evidence of what the serious enthusiasts really enjoy driving. The independent Porsche service place I go to has a legendary master mechanic and former race team member who has even disconnected the front wheel drive on a number of 993 and 996 Turbo's because of the enthusiast preference for RWD.
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