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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

1500501503505506590

Comments

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,900
    The problem I see with this CLA & every other car in this class is the 29,900 starting price. Add 4 matic, Navigation, Xenon Headlights, Distronic Cruise Control, sunroof, nice wheels... Like they'll have them loaded up on the auto show floors & in the showroom & $29,900 becomes $45K+ very quickly.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,900
    Turbo 4cyl
    208 hp/258 lb ft torque
    7 Speed Dual Clutch Automatic

    How much does it weigh?
    When are they going to put a "build your own CLA" on MBUSA's site?

    I'll wait to judge until I see some (unbiased) write ups.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,973
    The problem I see with this CLA & every other car in this class is the 29,900 starting price. Add 4 matic, Navigation, Xenon Headlights, Distronic Cruise Control, sunroof, nice wheels... Like they'll have them loaded up on the auto show floors & in the showroom & $29,900 becomes $45K+ very quickly.$50K.

    Much in the same way that a $35K 3 series of C class hits $50K.

    The CLA - and soon the new 1 series and A3 - are designed to bring MB, BMW and Audi back a few years in price and size to where the next generation of buyers can afford them. I'll wager that more than 50% of the CLA will be FWD with MB TEX and be offered at $259 a month.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,973
    When are they going to put a "build your own CLA" on MBUSA's site?

    It's not going on sale in the US until September 2013. Check back in August.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,676
    The 29K is a bit misleading...but it is the actual "Starting At" price.

    A "Typically Configured At" price would be more helpful but then it's a grey area anyway. One dealer would state "our" typically configured vehicles come with leather...their's don't.

    I wager most people realize that a new Mercedes for 29K isn't a top of the line, loaded vehicle; a loaded Optima and Focus can top that price...

    We recently purchased a Honda Crosstour and the MSRP was 33K (4 cyl); our sales price was substantially lower. The older I get the more expensive everything seems :sick:
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    Add 4 matic, Navigation, Xenon Headlights, Distronic Cruise Control, sunroof, nice wheels...

    Garbage that's 6K if it breaks, overpriced junk (seriously have you USED a Mercedes NAV vs a Garman?), mostly useless bling, what's wrong with normal cruise control?, terrarium that leaks eventually, and way way more pricey than better aftermarket rims.

    The truth is, the car is best in its base configuration. If you add bling to a car like that, you're either so rich you don't care about the cost or you're a fool.
  • michaellnomichaellno Posts: 4,300
    If you add bling to a car like that, you're either so rich you don't care about the cost or you're a fool.

    To each his (or her) own.

    My wife's car (not an ELLPS) has Xenon's - living in an area where wildlife crosses the road frequently, we've found them to be much, much better than regular headlights.
  • Yeah- try finding a base car on any dealer lot.
    Me personally, I love the added creature comforts.
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,185
    Voice of reason- nice - ellps should have some lux features built into the standard price- Acura does a nice job with standard features - the Germans not so much-

    Price matters in the segment - lets not be blind here people- a 4cly 3 series is close to 40k and it comes with pleather seats. The junk someone mentioned should be standard- otherwise you are just paying for a badge.
  • michaellnomichaellno Posts: 4,300
    ellps should have some lux features built into the standard price- Acura does a nice job with standard features - the Germans not so much-

    Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans - yep, I should think that some luxury features be available.

    I think the big difference between Acura, Lexus, Infiniti and MB, Audi and BMW is that the Germans offer 'unbundled' options (Xenons only? Ja Wohl) whereas the Japanese only offer 'bundled' options (Tech Package, etc.).
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,185
    Totally agree- the basic options (leather, Lights, heated seats) are standard on the Japanese brands.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,900
    I agree with you that there is nothing wrong with "normal" cruise control. I just stated that because MB touted Distronic in their ad.

    I also agree with you about a good windshield mounted GPS. My BMW's fully integrated navigation is nice to have, but if I were to look for another E90 328xi, I could live without it.

    Where I live in CT, the back roads and even the Merritt Parkwayare not well lit. I love my car's Bi-Xenon Adaptive headlights.

    AWD isn't a requirement (especially since the CLA is a FWD car). I like having it, even if it gives me a "false" sense of security. If I were to buy a FWD or RWD car, I'd have to buy snow tires for it. If I were to buy a dedicated set of snow tires and winter wheels, that'd be basically not too muich less than the cost of what the manufacturer charges for an AWD system.

    As far as looks go, to me there is no single determining factor that impact whether I like the way a car looks other than the wheels (rear end is second). I really like the way my 17" split 5 spoke (value package) wheels look on my car. The Sport Pkg Wheels & the ///M SPort Pkg Wheels look fantastic on the E90s as well. Some of the "base" 16" wheels on the lower optioned 328i E90s make the car look down right cheap. I would never buy a car with wheels I don't like and say to myself: "I'll get a set of sport package or ///M Sport package wheels in the spring."

    I'm sure the car (as most are) is "best in it's base configuration." Like others have said, how many of these base or low optioned cars are going to be at the auto shows, in press fleets, on dealer showrooms?

    Look at something like a Wrangler Unlimited. In it's base form (Sport), it is perfectly capable and will handle a lot of snow and even some light to medium duty off roading. How many Wrangler Sports do you see driving around? Where I live, I see a lot more Saharas (High $30K Sticker) and Rubicons (Low $40K Sticker).

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,541
    edited February 2013
    ... is fold-down rear seat. I think for BMW or Benz to demand $500 for it on sedans is a true scandal and I'm shocked they are getting away with it. What's worse, many dealers actually do not order this option, so I can bet there are many trully surprised owners of 3-series, who discover their seats don't fold down first time they try to put something bigger into their trunk.

    Xenons? Yeah, I think this is a disapointment that Germans charge extra for those. It should be standard today on ELLPS.
    Leather seats? I'd agree that in US-market it is also a big disapointment that BMW or Benz demand almost two grand for that, but knowing a bit about Euro market, I can certify that Europeans at large do not revere leather uphostery nearly as much as Americans. Many straight out prefer high quality cloth over leather on both their home couch and their car. One could call it charitably a "cultural difference". MB Tex is reporteadly a very high quality material, both in terms of appearance and durability, so it is even preferred by many. Quick inventory browse shows it is a majority on C250 models, which seems to confirm that assertion. If they sell, they can't be so bad. I bet many people actually think it is leather (as it is faking it really well).

    I don't know about BMW, their leatherette has much less footprint. It may mean the quality differential is greater. However, BMW also bundles leather with its premium package (MB does not), which is considered a must, even by selling dealers (BMW dealers actually order the cars they want within model allotments), plus it was even a free upgrade when E9x was being phased out (I know it was $0 option on my 2012 wagon).

    Anyway, I remember, when I added sunroof and those fold-down seats to sedan, suddenly the wagon (where it was standard) was not more expensive, at all. Tells me a lot about the mindset and market. I guess it is their effort to expand the buyer's base to those "aspirational" purchasers (not just by leases, but also by playing with content level), whereas wagons, coupes and convertibles do not have to carry that burden.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,673
    Yeah- try finding a base car on any dealer lot.

    Phoenix Motor has 25 C250's that are under 39K... Half are 37.9K and under. I'm sure most have leather and 7 spd auto.

    http://mercedesofphoenix.com/new-inventory?Make=Mercedes-Benz&Model=C-Class&sort- =Price%20asc

    Granted they also have 56K C350 sport too... OUCH...
  • Good Luck to those purchasers of 37k C250- as another poster would say Happy Motoring.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,541
    edited February 2013
    It is impossible that those 37K-39K Benzes have leather. According to MBUSA.com, to add leather seats ($1750), you have add premium package ($2500), which means even without metallic color ($720), you have to add $4250 to sticker, i.e. price HAS TO cross 40 grand to get leather. The MBTex looks like leather, but it is not. Many dealers are just terrible in car descriptions on their websites. All they give you is price, colors and list of standard equipment, which they call "options", probably to confuse you. Or perhaps they don't undertand meaning of word "option". Assuming some low level secretary inputs the data, it is possible, I suppose. BMW, MB and Volvo dealers are worst when it comes to description of their stock. At least those from my neck of the woods. Surprisingly, Cadillac dealers show exact descriptions of their stock, including package/option codes and everything. The lower you go in brand, the better it gets. All Ford, Toyota, GM, websites are great when it comes to accurate stock description. Go figure.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,185
    So msrps on Germans are misleading because you dk what exactly is in the said car. Interesting. I just went to the acura website- and they have 5 different ilx models - they come as they come no real options to speak just dealer accessories - same with the TL (6) and Tsx(5). Btw if the new mb 1 series is Ellps then so is the ilx.
    Now I'm not an acura fan in its current state of bland but will say if they are Ellps ( and to me that's debatable) they have pricing and packaging down.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,673
    Dino this is the description the dealer has for the less expensive C250 which is priced at $37,055. Is this internet price???
    2013 C250 Sedan with Mars Red Exterior, Black MB-Tex Interior, Sport Package, 17'' 5-Twin Spoke Wheels, Becker MAP PILOT Navigation, Aluminum Trim, and Much More!!

    Now we all know how dealers get people into the showroom, but if the description is correct, the car has sport package, but according to MBUSA webpage the sport package comes with 18" wheel and tires not 17..
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,774
    Do we need to change the list? I see Acura TL, TSX - if the TSX is the entry car, why is TL on the list? I see BMW 3 but not BMW 1. I see Caddy CTS but no ATS.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,914
    There's a limit to the number of vehicles we can list. The current list represents vehicles that people search for most often on our site (or search for on Google and end up in forums).

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    Share your vehicle reviews

  • I have this going one another forum and thought I would bring this to a more universal sight too.

    I will be purchasing a car in the near future and I am going for CPO. I really want an AWD, so the S4 is my first choice. I heard the Quattro is sick. The car will mostly be used for Road trips and Weekend driving. I have a older Nissan Maxima that is my daily driver. My main issue with the Audi is that most people state that it will be costly and frequent, in the future, and I plan on keeping the car for a long time. My 96 Maxima currently has 171k on it.

    I live in San Antonio Tx and it can get pretty hot. Are there any reasons I should avoid the Audi besides costly repairs??? I am not a wrencher, but I am not afraid to dig in.

    I am open to other cars too

    Please give me suggestions!!!

    So far the cars that caught my eyes are:

    Infiniti G37x (looks cheap in most areas, but still a great ride)

    Lexus GS350 (Never owned a Toyota and this one seems pretty nice)

    Audi B8 S4 (so far has all the specs I want and I like to have cars I don't see on the road all the time)

    ***BMW 335xi is not on my radar because I see way too many BMW's out here. I don't want to join the club.***
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,900
    AWD in Texas?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,541
    edited February 2013
    I don't know. All I saw on the website, if you took least expensive C250 starting at $35350, but not really because there is non-optional $905 manufacturer's "transportation charge", i.e. it REALLY starts at $36,255 MSRP (that is case of deceptive advertising, but it's a different story). Then any time you wanted to add leather, it required also a premium package, which in turn moved the price to 40+ grand. Your quoted car seems C250 Sport Sedan ($36,580) with standard 5-twin spoke wheels (for that line) and $475 worth of options, which ain't much - perhaps it is some snap-on navigation they mention. I do not think it is an internet There can be small discrepancies, as car prices change over the year. Definitely no leather - MB Tex (high quality polymer) is standard seat surface. No, this car does not have $2500 "sports package", it is C250 Sports Sedan. There is a difference, but the dealer probably doesn't know it (or pretends not to know it).

    Edit: Adding Sports Package to a red C250 Sports Sedan jacks the price to 41 grand (you have to add premium 1 with it, too, total bundle $4800). I doubt dealer would advertise such car for 37 grand. Considering the wheels, it is simple case of misinformation/misdirection.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,541
    S4 is best choice for fun, but in spite of being CPO, I would keep some good money on the account. If you have the money go for it. If you look for some low payment type of deal, or are not prepared to spend more on the car than just buying price, go for Infiniti.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • I can afford the car, and maintenance. I just don't want the car to be rumplestiltskin and force me to offer up my 1st born.

    I read alot of the stories out ther and know the car will be expensive. I do want to keep it until 100k if possible.

    I know AWD isn't necessary in Texas, but I think it will be fun.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,541
    As long as you are prepared, S4 is the one I's choose.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,774
    I can afford the car, and maintenance. I just don't want the car to be rumplestiltskin and force me to offer up my 1st born.

    I LOVED my 1998 Audi A4. I drove it 88K and after the warranty ran out I probably spent about $1800 total on maintenance and repairs. Most of that was a cooling issue that the dealer had trouble finding. I sold it earlier than I normally do as I was worried about more costs/problems. But it was never unreliable or left me stranded.

    I now have an Acura TL with 130K and pretty near nothing has gone wrong. It's more reliable and cheaper to own than the Audi, and a very nice car.

    Costs aside, I'd pick the Audi. Just be prepared for some extra $$, which you might not need, but you never know. If you are concerned, you might be able to buy an extended warranty.
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,185
    I also agree the b8 is one hell of a machine- as others have mentioned audis in general love the shop, and costs are high if you get a runt. They are real performers but please get one with a manual- the autos are fine but this car should be reserved for the enthusiasts.

    G35O another nice rig but its more of a cruiser then a hot rig- love the looks and RWD pretty cool.

    G37- awd nice cars - bummer can't get with stick- halls - best value in this class- not the best in the slick weather (snow) with 18s -

    In Texas - I would go slightly used s4 (stick), new g 37 sport RWD stick, then awd g37x, then gs.

    All pretty good choices - good luck.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,455
    tlong.....you and I have the same taste in cars.....TLs, Audis, BMWs.

    Before the GF bought her S4, she did her due diligence. Personally, if I like a car, I'm all over it. But, I don't give much thought to reliability. And, quite frankly, I don't put much stock in Consumer Reports reliability rankings, as I consider them little more than the CR faithful (who they base the reliability rankings on) as confirming foregone conclusions. That's a different topic, though.

    The GF talked to everyone she knew who currently owned, or at some time owned an Audi in the past, about their ownership experience. While not scientific, and probably only numbered a dozen people, without fail, Audi ownership experiences were positive.

    pletko....well smack me silly and call me foolish. I like sport seats (that are heated). I like trick DSG transmissions. I like big fat leather steering wheels in my hands while driving. In other words, I'm one of those fools you describe. I'm good with that.

    Had this discussion with a friend while at a SuperBowl party last Sunday. He owns, among others, a BMW 6 series. Nice car. Not sure what the drivetrain is, but I think it's a V8 with a manumatic. I've ridden in it several times. I even drove it once (to take his inebriated butt home). It definitely is big and heavy, and you feel the mass and weight. It's not a particularly good handling machine, and it's not particularly quick. It's what I consider a poseur. That said, it's pretty and it costs a lot. Both of those traits fit my my friend's personality to a tee. :P

    We had the GF's S4 at the party. As we got into discussions about cars, he found the S4 not "blingy" enough for his taste. That alone made the S4's status move a couple of rungs up the status ladder for us.

    As we were talking, he asked me what I did not like about the TL. In all reality, I couldn't list one thing. There were some niggly things that maybe would bother me more than others (like a hint of torque steer on quick starts from stop). But, nothing that was a show stopper. Granted, the S4 and my 335 are faster and handle better. Plus, the suspension/ride/handling compromise in the Germans and 2nd to none.

    But, the TL SH AWD will get you to 80% of what the Audi will do. There are some things that the TL does that no other car I've ever owned was able to do. Now, these are minor things, but noticeable nonetheless.

    For example, I've never owned another car that had more comfortable sport seats than the TL. Nothing is perfect. But, for me, the TL's sport seats were about as close as you can get. They're bolstered perfectly and are comfortable while holding you in your seat.

    The HVAC system heats up and cools down faster than in any other car I've ever owned, too. And, it holds the perfect temp (that I've set) better than any other car I've owned.

    Ergonomically, at least for things like window switches, seat belt, steering wheel, etc., I could get in the TL, and with one smooth move reach and click the seat belt without reaching....all the while having my hand fall in the perfect location to the start button.

    Up until the B&O system in the S4 (which is insanely good), the TL's stereo was the best I had ever heard in a car (that includes some high buck aftermarket installations).

    Point of all this, even designs that are long in the tooth, like the TL, are still really good ELLPS these days. And, I certainly don't feel foolish for liking the options they come with.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,704

    I know AWD isn't necessary in Texas, but I think it will be fun.


    I've had AWD, FWD and RWD and IMO most of the fun to be had with AWD is when driving in snow. For dry weather fun nothing beats a good RWD car.

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

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