Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

1510511513515516589

Comments

  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,184
    edited April 2013
    Behind the comment (which the poster will never address) was meant as a derogatory term, so yes billy like the Beak of the 2008-2011 TL that's left it's mark on Acura sales its left a mark. - and I guess in a way I do wear a backwards hat. So yes billy I'm a little stuck on the comment - i love story's about GF and trips to Chicago and how great life is- but please don't tell us why someone who owns a BMW is embarrassed by someone who has Xenons on an old Altima- or the fact the Car next to him has a tinted windows. Joke
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,184
    edited April 2013
    Good responce - thanks for the detailed comment- wasn't 2 decades ago. I stand by what I said.

    Lets make this forum productive- more fact less smack.
  • leoblueleoblue Posts: 19
    Thank you everyone for your advice. This weekend I continue the saga to find my next car and here's the report.

    Mercedes C-Class C300 4MATIC
    - I really like this car. It looks refined outside and elegant inside. The ride is composed though it feels heavy and a tad slow (vs. my TL. The C300 has 248hp + AWD vs. my TL 258hp, that maybe why)
    Infiniti G37x:
    - I like the G37 design but it's dated. Not much change even since the G35. And overall, I find the "G" styling works much better with the coupe than the sedan. Interior is decent, nothing wow but overall good impression.
    - Man, this car is fast. 328hr really works here. However, like many have said before, the engine is not refined.
    - So my overall impression with the G37s is so so... I think Infiniti know it so they throw in an outstanding lease deal right now.

    So at this point, I'm kind of leaning toward the C300

    Then the next morning, I took my TL out for an oil change. While waiting, I saw a Cadillac dealer right across the street. I hate Cadillac "Art & science" design language, to the point I think I'd feel embarrassed driving one. But I've been seeing and hearing enough about the new ATS that I decided to give it a try.
    Cadillac ATS 2.0T
    - First off, I think the ATS looks the best among the current Cadillacs (the new CTS looks very good too when I saw it at the NY Auto Show but it's not current yet). It looks sporty and smart. The LED arch looks better in real life than on TV. The interior looks pretty nice too with attention to details. Some negatives: the dashboard stitching is a good attempt but looks fake. The high gloss center control looks cheap. And the silver buttons line up "Transformer" style looks kiddy. I thought only ATS suffers from this layout (perhaps the designer tried too hard to make it look young) but surprised to find the same button line up and layout in the CTS. Too bad, without these negatives, the ATS cabin could be one of the nicest in its class.
    - The drive: Awesome. Wow, this is the first time that I feel the "fun to drive" that people have been talking about. It feels light and fast, yet composed and firm. The only car to this point that I want to keep on driving during the test drive.
    - After the initial excitement, I went home and did some research about the ATS, owner's review. It looks like the CUE still has a lot of problems and gas mileage is far below what Cadillac claimed. It's kind of expected for a car in its 1st year of its 1st gen.
    - So I think the ATS is a great car but not a car for now.

    Now, the remaining candidates are BMW 328i xdrive and MB C300 4MATIC. Then wife said: BMW. So BMW it will be! :)
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,914
    Lets make this forum productive- more fact less smack.

    I fear that this forum would die of shock if we started introducing fact at this point. :)

    MODERATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    A very nice and detailed report by leoblue.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,889
    Great write up & a fantastic choice. We've all got our preferences, but you can't go wrong in this class. Please feel free to stick around & post your ownership & driving impressions!

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • So I am in the market for entry level luxury. I have narrowed my choices to Lexus ES350, InfinitiG37, BMW 328,i, BMW 335i. Anyone has any +ve/-ve about any of these? I am leaning towards ES350, but at this point still open.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,305
    I am leaning towards ES350. . .

    If you've driven all four of these cars and still prefer the Lexus, then you are their target demographic. Go for it.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 15,414
    all fine cars, in their own way, but quite a bit different from each other. so the answer really depends on what is important to you. Based on these choices, the fact that you are leaning toward the ES says to me that you desire quite comfy luxury, not sporty. If so, fine choice!

    in this group, I will say that driving them all is key.

    2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4i Limited Tech (mine), 2013 Acura RDX (wife's) and 2007 Volvo S40 (daughters college car)

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,448
    lexusbuyer...based solely on your user name, I'd say your mind is alreayd made up?

    Gotta agree with stickguy here. All are fine cars. But, if you are looking for that isolated feel of an ES350, you'll probably be disappointed in the others you're looking at. Nothing wrong with that. It's all personal preference.

    I think the ES was either new for this year, or last year at the earliest.

    What are your priorities in what your looking for? Those might help with your decision making. And, it might help us understand which way to steer you.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,538
    edited April 2013
    Lexus ES is front wheel drive, whereas the other three are RWD-based, or AWD if you choose such. That makes a big difference in handling on ramps and corners. Lexus is Camry-based, but I would not say it's just a Camry, because that's not really fair. However, it will definitely share some characteristics with its common sister.

    If you are interested in feel of luxury at a great price, quite and smooth ride, especially on long trips, don't really care (or can't even understand what we are talking about) about handling, ES is absolutely perfect. I'm not mocking you or anybody else who doesn't care about handling. I know a lot of people like that and I don't think of them any less. They sit in Crown Vic or Taurus and don't miss what I would, makes them happier and that's fine. They're happy with engine pull. Again - not mocking anyone, just stating the fact.

    ES350 will have all luxuries (and possibly more) that you want and money still in the wallet left, great corporate reliability, plenty of clever stuff inside. I was impressed when I saw some features in my coworker' s. It's a fine car, just not for me. I like sharper steering (new BMW is already too dull for me, I like the previous models more) that RWD or AWD can offer, don't mind to pay for it with bit more road noise. I like manual transmissions, if I can have one, I'd gladly pay for it. Some ATs are really good, too, I just take MT as long as I can - just me. I can't say much about G37, other than it was developed to chase 335 buyer with lower price point or 328 buyer with same/similar price point but better performance. It is a bit "old tech" today, but it may be a good thing. BMW and MB need to improve gas mileage, so they go with these 4-cylinder turbos, G37 stays true to high output naturally aspirated V6 that is not very frugal, but is a rocket. They can afford it, as I believe, their mpg is averaged with parent Nissan (I don't know for sure, but why else wouldn't they come with similar engines already?). I would call it most "old school ELLPS" of the bunch.

    If I needed one today and could afford it, 335 is best FOR ME, but I have no problem with somebody saying ES350 is better FOR THEM. I can even see why and acknowledge those as valid reasons. Bottom line - it's trully matter of priorities.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • ilexusbuyerilexusbuyer Posts: 15
    edited April 2013
    Thank you cdnpinhead, stickguy, graphicguy, dino001 for your input.
    So far have only driven lexus, so I still need to drive others to see what I like personally. What I wanted to get here was experiences from others.
    My Priorities :
    - Luxury
    - smooth and quiet driving
    - least maintenance cost
    - good mpg
    - roomy (would like the back seat as wide as possible for 3 to fit comfortable. Have two car seat and still have the middle person have enough room).
    - I really do not know more about handling besides the smooth and quiet I mentioned above.
    - value for money
    - long term (like go 200K or more without issues)
    - brand name :)

    Any other car that fits the criteria above besides the one I have listed?
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,448
    Looks like a Lexus fits your bill.

    Maintenance costs are going to be a bit high. Have a neighbor who has two "Lexi". He is contstantly complaining about how high maintenance is, even for routine maintenance. Then again, someone has to pay for those oppulent showrooms.

    Any of these vehicles will go for 200K miles. As you're aware, strict maitenance is key, however.

    Value for money....hmmmm....looking at that and low maintenance desires, smooth ride, big back seat, have you looked at one of Hyundai's premium cars? The Equs or Genesis? They have great warranties. My son had an Elantra and it was uber cheap to maintain. And, it lasted him a good long while.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,025
    edited April 2013
    I think you should look at the Acura TL. It's front wheel drive like the Lexus, gets excellent MPG, rated very high reliability and low maint especially if you plan on keeping it a long time(which you indicated). The German cars will no doubt cost you more time and money after you get out of warranty time and miles. If you have to deal with snow the Lexus and TL being FWD will be a little better for traction. The Acura TL also comes in a AWD version but based on your stated use and not caring that much about the handling I wouldn't recommend it as it is heavier, get less MPG and cost several thousand more. Why pay for it if you're not really going to use it. The Germans are all RWD with AWD being optional but if you have to contend with a lot of bad weather and snow you would probably need the AWD which, again, raises the price and lowers the MPG.

    If it were me and I had the same buying criteria that you have, I would go with either the Lexus or the Acura.
  • Thanks m6user. I did try out the Acura TL also. It did not feel as smooth as lexus and also felt a little small from inside (compared to lexus). The controls on lexus were much better also. I guess, these are the personal things one notices after the test drive. Overall, I like Acura TL also.

    I live in norcal with no weather/snow issues.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,025
    edited April 2013
    Yes, the Lexus is a little smoother and bigger inside as it's now based on the Avalon and not the Camry as someone else mentioned. In fact, if you're not totally immune to a Toyota versus Lexus you might take a look at the Avalon. From what I saw at the auto show and from what I've read about it, it seems to have an almost luxury class interior and the same drivetrain as the Lexus for about $5-8k less money.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,672
    For work I travel, and rent a lot of cars. Lately I have been renting many Buick LaCrosse's I have to say, I'm pretty impressed with them. They are comfortable, roomy, good power and get decent MPG. The price difference between a Top of the line LaCrosse and ES is about 10K, which is a lot of money. As graphic has pointed out, you are sold on the Lexi, why waste your time looking at other cars when you will have a hard time being objective looking at other cars. However, if you can be objective, the LaCrosse should be one to look at. BTW, what is your price range you want to spend? Also look at the new Toyota Avalon, again, you will save yourself about 10K.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,889
    roomy (would like the back seat as wide as possible for 3 to fit comfortable. Have two car seat and still have the middle person have enough room).

    I think you are looking in the wrong class (size wise) of cars. Any of these will fit 2 car seats in the back, but fit a 3rd person comfortably in the back with the 2 car seats? I don't think so. Are we talking high back booster seats or 5 point harness seats that need to be LATCHed in?

    Have you looked at the Toyota Avalon? It is a bigger car than the ES, I think :confuse: It should get you the same comfortable ride you are looking for & that LEGENDARY Toyota reliability :P

    One way to reduce your maintenance costs on a Toyota or Lexus would be to pay attention when you take the car in. Don't just drop it off to the Service Advisor & say, "the light is on, it needs service." Usually unless it is something major, the car will most likely require a simple oil change when the light comes on.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,538
    To Lexus Buyer

    This forum is populated mostly by people who have quite a bit different priorities than yours. There is nothing wrong with your priorities. Somebody here mentioned Buick, which could be another good fit for you, based on your self-description. It is probably a fine car and I would not mind renting one on an business trip to some metropolitan area, or a family trip with my parents in the back seat. However, I'd definitely not buy one, even at a steep discount and would beg a rental counter guy for something different if I went on same trip alone, especially if it involved twisty hilly/mountain roads. Different strokes for different folks. Seem to me that ES is car for you, or LaCrosse/Avalon, if you want to save money. If you bought 3-series you'll likely feel ripped off, because the things it has are the ones you seem to care least about.

    On the other note, please notice that you came to ELLPS forum, but it seems your preferences are strongly into ELLS, "P" being omitted. Buick, Lexus or Avalon have all good strong engines and good straight line accelerations, but that's not enough to be "P". It's the control and responsiveness aspect, usually a result of a trade with size and comfort. So if you go back into the discussion and see so many people loving 3-series, just know that they don't love it because it is roomy, quiet, or comfortable. It is none of these things in comparison with mentioned Buick or Lexus.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • Thanks for your insight dino001. You are right, I think I am not really looking for the "P". I will test drive the other cars and see what I feel.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    All the other cars on your list are going to be too "sporty" for you I suspect. Sporty meaning too small inside, too harsh riding, and/or too noisy.

    I agree with others that you should consider the Buick Lacrosse and Toyota Avalon. I would also add the Hyundai Genesis to the list.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 15,414
    the Infiniti would be out anyway due to MPG, smoothness, and back seat. And no way are you getting that much space out of the 3 series.

    The Lexus I believe is a bit roomier than the others. Not sure if big enough. Avalon, probably a fine choice, if you can live with the plebeian badge!

    Getting into a MB E class or a BMW 5 series is going to really up the ante.

    the Buick, could be a fine option. If you want domestic, a Chrysler 300? Hey, if you are going big, go REAl big!

    2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4i Limited Tech (mine), 2013 Acura RDX (wife's) and 2007 Volvo S40 (daughters college car)

  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,599
    FWIW, the new Avlon-based ES Lexus has a huge amount of rear seat leg room.
  • Yes, it does. I did test drive the lexus and it fit the two booster seat and still comfortable for the third person in the middle.

    To respond to stickguy :
    I think you are right that infiniti and 3 series might not have exactly what I am looking for, but I will still go test drive them.
    Do not really want to go with Avalon. Want a little higher brand name like Lexus.
    Cannot afford the E class or 5 series. Would have loved them.

    I really appreciate all the feedback from all of you. Very good points and educational.
  • mvs1mvs1 Posts: 462
    edited April 2013
    Between my wife and I we've owned/leased each of these vehicles over the past say ten years and add to this an Audi A4 and Lexus RX. I'd like to share my opinion on what you have posted, but do encourage you to drive everything you're interested in. Car buying...test driving is fun and vehicles are expensive, so enjoy picking out what you like.

    Many of the important items you'll get with any of the cars you've listed. As some others have pointed out I think the back seat may pose the biggest challenge. I think the ES or even the A4 might serve best in this area. Since low maintenance cost over 200k miles is important, personally I'd flunk the German brands out. On both my ES and RX, I just did routine services over both vehicles with each exceeding 150k miles, so my experience with Lexus regarding low cost maintenance was great. However BMW and Audi with Audi care provide free scheduled maintenance over 50k miles. However over 200k I'd expect service to cost more on these models.

    Your quiet and smooth to drive speaks Lexus as well. My wife complains my BMW is a harsh ride since I have a sport package and low profile tires. Speaking of the BMW, I have a 335. This car and the 328 are very different vehicles to drive, so drive them both to experience the difference. Both are much more focused on sporty vs. luxury.

    Based on what you've listed, I actually think the Lexus RX would get you everything you want but the mileage since its an SUV....and no longer a performance luxury sedan, however I wouldn't consider the ES (which the RX is based off of) one either.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,599
    The ES has much more backseat legroom than the A4.

    In a nutshell, BMW compared to Lexus is much more fun to drive than ride in. Vice versa for the Lexus.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,672
    Fed, I was thinking of the Genesis, but he want FWD, and the Genesis is RWD.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 15,414
    The Azera is comparable to an ES. and quite roomy. Though of course, without the prestige badge!

    2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4i Limited Tech (mine), 2013 Acura RDX (wife's) and 2007 Volvo S40 (daughters college car)

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,672
    Do not really want to go with Avalon. Want a little higher brand name like Lexus.

    I love this line, and people wonder why Lexus has done so well, they took the reliability of Toyota and added more luxury and charge 10-15K more for the same car and people run to the dealership in droves...

    The new Avalon sounds like the car you are looking, but doesn't have the higher price tag...
Sign In or Register to comment.