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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • scwmcanscwmcan Niagara, CanadaPosts: 394
    Engine yes, transmission no, though the may be a few common parts in the transmission ( a transverse FWD tranny just can't be exactly the same as a longitudinally mounted RWD tranny). Besides that very little in common, the Xts is built on the epsilon ii platform that it shares ( though the xts's may be an updated epsilon II platform) with the Buick Lacrosse, the CTS is built on ( shoot forget what the name of the current CTS platform is) a platform not shared with any other GM product ( though it used to share it with the SRX ans STS), the upcoming CTS will be built on an extended and ( I beileve widened) ATS platform, so still nothing besides engine and maybe some programming in common so no I don't think the XTS and CTS are anywhere near the same car in the way the Avalon and ES are.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,753
    ATS....neither of which would be on my short list if I were plunking down my own money. Strong rumors around that the ATS is falling short of GM's sales expectations and they're throwing trunk money at it.

    Saw my first ATS a few days ago. Overall the car looks pretty nice, but wow - those little windows are like slits. Sort of like they Camaro-ized the CTS. I know we have higher side impact standards and such, but this driving in a deep bathtub craze really needs to stop, or we will just eliminate the windows and go to CRT displays inside. :(
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    +1

    Big peeve of mine to see how high the sills are on new cars. And speaking of convertibles, who wants a convertible where only the tips of your ears are above the doors?

    I just have to laugh when I see someone driving with the top down these days, windows up and ball cap on. Might as well save the grief and buy a coupe.

    A real convertible actually blows your hair around and you can rest your arm comfortably on door sill :)
  • billyperksiibillyperksii Posts: 198
    Graph- I might be drifting towards your end-Audi.
    I am looking at the A6 3.0 supercharger, Premium Plus with 19" Sport.
    Glacier White with the Nogout Leather.
    I have 15 months of payments on the TL to outright own the car.
    Here is the obstacle, my wife, she wants us to keep the TL, only 24k miles with 4 years of ownership.
    I am sitting on the fence with that new car itch.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    A real convertible actually blows your hair around and you can rest your arm comfortably on door sill

    With a pack of Camels or Marlboros tucked under a tee shirt sleeve.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,650
    I can understand top down, windows up, cap on. My pet peeve is top up, windows up, AC cranking on a gorgeous day.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,253
    billy...have you driven the A6 yet? I'll be keeping the S4 for a couple more years. But, they normally give me an A6 as a loander when I'm in for service. The 3.0 supercharged motor is a real gem. I'd give up a little handling, and the A6 is certainly heavier. But, I'd certainly choose it over a 5 series. It's less expensive than a 5, too..equipped like for like.

    That said, I got some seat time in my sister's new '13 TL Advance. I forgot how good those cars are, too.

    My independent mechanic told me a while ago...."if you're only going to keep a car 3-4 years, one of the German marques will do. If you're going to keep a car past 3-4 years, get a Japanese marque (he specifically likes Honda products). If you want a car that's cheap to maintain, get an American marque."

    As you know, I'll pull the trigger on a new car on a whim. That said, in this part of the market, there are almost no bad cars. They all have their own personalities, and they all bring something just a little different to the party. But, they all perform, handle, ride, better than 98% of the market.

    As much ballyhooing GM has trumpeted with the ATS, my encounters with it (albeit brief) wouldn't have me writing a check for one. It's too corse, it needs some serious tech debugging. And, if you can't at least line up body parts correctly in this part of the market, don't even bother coming to market.

    nyc...fed...I'm with you guys on a convertible. If you don't have the sun on your head, and the wind blowing your hair every which way, what's the point of a convertible?
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,842
    Thanks for answering for me.

    IMHO, when vehicles share "DNA", it usually means platforms.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,341
    or we will just eliminate the windows and go to CRT displays inside.

    Speaking of CRT displays, I believe back up camera's are less than useless and worthless in my view. People have been driving nearly a Century without issue and without back up camera's (at least the competent drivers).

    I'd find a DASH CAM 1,000X times more useful and worthwhile than a back-up cam. There's so many bad driver's out there, the dash camera could be used on occasion in court (if needed), or to mail video to someone's insurance company.

    Instead of red light camera enforcement, how about citizens' arrest tickets for left lane camping using dash cam video as evidence. I'll even show up in court to testify against a LLC that the video was taken by me, so that it isn't complete BS hearsay unacceptable evidence like is currently accepted by most lower corrupted courts for red light camera tickets. I think it would be worth my time to get these camping people prosecuted.

    Even better, let's pass a law that 30% of the proceeds of the revenue generated go to the video taker to make this even more worthwhile; I'm sure that's a better deal for the city than Red-flex gives them!!!!

    Pretty soon left lane campers would be eradicated and traffic would flow smoothly 90% of the time; even at rush hour except in DC and LA.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,639
    Big peeve of mine to see how high the sills are on new cars. And speaking of convertibles, who wants a convertible where only the tips of your ears are above the doors?

    Briefly when I was 16, I had a bugeye sprite, now talk about wind in your face and hair blown around. I ended up selling it and bought a Datsun Roadster had that until my senior year in HS.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,275
    edited May 2013
    I ended up selling it and bought a Datsun Roadster had that until my senior year in HS.

    Was it a 1600 or a 2000? I love Datsuns from that era -- drove a '68 1600 sedan (later to become the 510) and a '73 510 for many many miles.

    Good times. :D
  • billyperksiibillyperksii Posts: 198
    Funny thing, my mechanic told me the same thing too, additionally he is advocating for me to keep the TL. He keeps mentioning that it looks like I bought it yesterday-thanks to the many Zaino products and a garage.

    I dont know, maybe or maybe not- I will let the Forum know.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,253
    Billy....one of the things I miss most from the TL are the headlights. My S4 has HIDs with LEDs. The TL "only" has HIDs. They are worlds better than the Audi's lamps. Same goes for the A6.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,631
    edited May 2013
    My independent mechanic told me a while ago...."if you're only going to keep a car 3-4 years, one of the German marques will do. If you're going to keep a car past 3-4 years, get a Japanese marque (he specifically likes Honda products). If you want a car that's cheap to maintain, get an American marque."

    A "while ago" that might have been good advice but I own two German cars more than a decade old that continue to give reliable day to day service with fewer problems than I'd expect from any car of that age. I know several other people in the same boat so it's not just a sample of two.

    Thew belief that German cars become hideously expensive to run after a few years/miles works to the advantage of those who buy them when they're over 4-5 yrs/o. They're fantastic values if you buy carefully.

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • billyperksiibillyperksii Posts: 198
    Graph- I get it- you are INDIRECTLY telling me to stick with the TL.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,253
    billy.....LOL! It's your money. I can spend it for you if you'd like.

    I like both the TL and my Audi. There are just certain things that the TL does better than the Audi (or my previous BMW 3 for that matter). Headlights is just one of them. I know it's the new "bling" trend to have LED lights. But, I've yet to see any car beat the illumination of the TL's HIDs. The TL's sport seats are more comfortable than those in my S4 (which has really good seats, too).

    My money....given a choice? I would keep the TL. The A6 (and my S4) is a great car. Is it $15K+ better than the TL SH AWD? I'd be hard pressed to say so.

    I've decided that I've hit the cross roads of diminishing returns with the $50K-$55K price point I've been hovering in (which is where the Audis and BMWs seem to hit).

    Again, it will be a couple of years, but I'll probably return to Acura after they announce the new TL. Strong rumor that it will be a 2015....right when I'm ready to buy. Also, assuming it still has a 6 cyl and is at least as good as the present TL.
  • billyperksiibillyperksii Posts: 198
    Actually, I went back in December 2012and test drove the A6 extensively.
    The sales guy was one of the nicest I had met at any of the three Audi dealership in Fairfield County CT. I almost swapped it out at that point but my value side got the better of me- we'll see about that.
    I agree with you on the headlights, I swapped out the fogs for HID's, you can see me coming from a mile.
    I will probably wait until year end to start dibbling again- hopefully the markets keep doing what they are doing now.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,650
    Like you've said many times GG, none of us (with possibly the exception of Roadburner & Fedlawman) comes close to our respective cars limits of acceleration & adhesion, especially on public roads. No matter how fast we tackle twisty back roads or blast off onto an open highway.

    There are days when I jump onto 95 and have been able to set my cruise at 80 mph. Traveling at that speed, I've been passed (easily) by a 2003 V6 Camry, a 2004 Suburban just to name a few. At the same point, I've passed by Aston Martins, 911 Cabs, & even Ferraris with my cruise set at 65 mph. All of us here enjoy what we drive.

    Are there differences between a TL SH AWD Advanced & the 5er, E350, or A6? Absolutely. The Germans don't just charge more because they can. I'm not going to say one is more durable or reliable than the other. But if the Acura is 8/10ths of the comparable German Sedan, I'll be on my way to pick up a TL.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,530
    'Like you've said many times GG, none of us (with possibly the exception of Roadburner & Fedlawman) comes close to our respective cars limits of acceleration & adhesion, especially on public roads. '

    This is actually one reason that I am so addicted to TQ.
    I can typically find a portion of any drive [ and an excuse ] to use WOT – even if only for a few seconds.
    To me, that is ‘a rush’ – and I enjoy it.
    High absolute cornering limits just mean I have wide leeway in my [ um, enthusiastic ] street driving.
    - Ray
    Admitted TQ addict – and no desire to reform . . .
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,639
    It was a 1600, however, I placed a 2L in it as I blew the 1.6 engine. I sold it and bought a 69 510, which was a fun car, with a stroked 2L in it.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,397
    well, I track my car. So :P

    ;)

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,650
    I knew I forgot someone :surprise: . You know what I was getting at. flightnurse is a track guy too.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,341
    They're fantastic values if you buy carefully.

    I'm convinced 90% of the problems and perceptions people have with older German cars' costs as they age is from previous owners that skimped on maintenance, or from incompetent mechanics having worked on them.

    If it is properly maintained, I can't see any problems that will be too costly with most German cars.

    That said, I think Audi is doing a better job with quality control than BMW or Mercedes lately, seen CR recently?
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,253
    Q...you've been tracking for a lng while. Those track events are well behind me. However, I do enjoy a well engineered, sporting car on a challenging road.

    NYC....we all like what we like. Cars in this class are hard to find fault with. It comes down to the different flavor you prefer.
  • leoblueleoblue Posts: 19
    I spend a lot of time driving and listening to music while driving so good sound is very important to me. I would speculate that car lovers usually love music too.

    Out of all the performance cars we've been talking about, which one do you think have best sound for music?
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,253
    Leo.....I have a Bang & Olufson system in my Audi. It's really good. But, the best I've ever heard is ithe ELS system in the Acura.

    Trailing behind those two would be the Harmon Kardon system in the BMW and Mercedes, then the Bose system in the Cadillac.

    I haven't heard the system in the Infiniti for a long while, so I can't really comment on it. I don't remember it being particularly good or bad.

    I also haven't heard the Levinson system in the Lexus for a long time, either. But again, compared to the others above, I don't recall it being a stand out.

    By the way, all these systems mentioned above are extra cost options on all of the cars they come in.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,639
    GG there are three different versions of the B&O sound system in the Audi's, I was very impressed with the A8, with the movable tweeters on the dash, the A6 and A4 didn't have the clear highs that the A8 had.

    I had a MKS as a rental a couple of weeks back and it had their top of the line system with the THX and was impressed for a none big name connected to it that it sounded as good as it did. Never been impressed with any of the BOSE systems in any car, and the Levinson system in the Lexus is excellent.
  • scwmcanscwmcan Niagara, CanadaPosts: 394
    edited May 2013
    I saw a MKZ on the road yesterday, and I have to say appearance wize it is very nice ( now do I know where it fits in performance wize no, and I am not about to guess without actually driving it agains the other cars in its class). I do think it looks much better on person than in photos ( and was quite eye catching). So I guess at least the styling direction at Lincoln is going the right way ( I have to agree with those who think the engineering side may be a bit lacking) but at least they aren't just producing an exact clone of a fusion and slapping a Lincoln grill on it and saying done, they at least differentiated it this time.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    "NYC....we all like what we like. Cars in this class are hard to find fault with. It comes down to the different flavor you prefer."

    This exactly!
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    edited May 2013
    "Like you've said many times GG, none of us (with possibly the exception of Roadburner & Fedlawman) comes close to our respective cars limits of acceleration & adhesion, especially on public roads."

    Well, I don't know about public roads... I have my fun, but I save the absolute limits for the track. I only visit the track a handful of times a year.
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