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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    OK. Just checked with wife. She is kind of an enthusiast driver through the years as observed by me in her driving in the twisities locally and in challenging roads (not interstates) around the country on vacation trips. She has selected and bought American branded performance cars in the past. She said she has never heard of the UA designations for Acura cars. She does know the difference between Acura TL vintages 1999-2003, 2004-2008, 2009-2013. Does she need to know more with regards to peculiar factory coding?
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,147
    peculiar factory coding is for ultra- enthusiasts which I am not, sorry
  • scwmcanscwmcan Niagara, CanadaPosts: 394
    Nice joke thread about codes for the model years guys
  • billyperksiibillyperksii Posts: 198
    If that's the case I will hold on a little longer to my 2009.
    I will probably go German next but time will tell.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,578
    Sorry billy. This special edition TL is nothing more than an appearance package according to edmunds.com

    "Honda's Acura Division reported on June 3 that it sold 12,434 Acura TLs year-to-date through May, a drop of 15.3 percent compared to a year ago."

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,147
    Yeah TL sales are around 40% of the peak sales years ago- this beak issue was never addressed the way they quickly fixed the civic- shame car was very attractive to the segment. Unfortunately now it's only attractive because of massive discounts- the looks are just to over the top ugly. I remember in 08, 09 and 10 when I got banned from an acura TL forum because I was questioning it. My point was Acrua had lost it's way- graphguy and nycitycarguy and smarty666 all over me for saying the current TL has been a disaster, and that both Buick and Hyundai were making huge strides catching Acura. Thanks NYC for reinforcing my point 4 years later, I also like the fact that both NYC and Graph now troll German,'smarty is Mia, I'm still banded but no one looks at that board anymore.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,578
    Those TL Type S' still bring stupid money used. I don't know what they are crossing the auction block for, but do an autotrader or cars.com search and you'll see quite a few of the 2006 (not sure if 2006 or 2007 was the 1st year) -2008 TL Type S' listed for mid - high teens with over 100K miles.

    Does anybody have the actual TL sales numbers 2004 - 2008 to compare them with the TL sales numbers from 2009 - 2013?

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,147
    Wiki has those numbers
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    OK. My wife had the UA4-UA5 (BMW and Mercedes afficionados should approve of my detail) 2001 Acura TL. When the 2004 came out in early Oct 2003, we both test drove it and she said she had to have it because of its improvements in handling and of course styling. That would be the UA6-UA7 factory codes. About 3 years later, because she puts lots of miles on her cars, she then wanted to upgrade to the 2007, which was still the UA6-UA7 vintage as long as I would take over her 2004 UA6-UA7 car and put up with the high mileage. Since her purchase of the UA6-UA7 (2007) both she and I have had occasions to have loaners of the UA8-UA9 gen 2009-2012 when our cars needed routine maintenance beyond simple engine oil changes. I noticed, just as C&D and other testers, that steering was kind of weird. OK. Now, with a lot of miles on the 2007, and 2004, will Acura come out with a new maybe UA10-UA11 in 2014 or will it be in 2015, that will look great and have improved handling, etc, to entice us to stay with Acura.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,500
    edited June 2013
    They have pricing detail on bimmerfest for 328 diesel, sedan only so far. It is $1500 more than gasoline. This may actually work, for first time. There are no EPA mileage numbers yet, but depending on driving style and type of driving, but looks better than ever, especially for a highway driving. Seem like they really want to sell diesel in numbers, for first time.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,637
    Dino, BMW has been stating that the 328d will get 45 on the highway. BMW seems very confident of that number, if that is true, they will sell a lot of them. The Diesel engine will come in the wagon and X3. What I find interesting is, there is no word from BMW is the 328d sedan and or wagon will be available in the Euro Delivery program since Europe does not use Ultra Low Sulfa Diesel. I'm suspecting they wont be.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,500
    edited June 2013
    Seems ULSD, i.e. less than 10 ppm, is part of already implemented Euro 5 fuel standard, since 2009, so this is no longer a problem.

    Edit - see the link, There is Euro delivery price on 328d, so no problem. Seems you were misinformed.

    http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=378186&stc=1&d=1369- 332610

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,147
    I'm glad this diesel 3 series is close in price to the normal 3. Sure the base of the 3 is close to midlux level standard cars and you get less for the buck but in diesel form it would be a decent deal given what avg hybrids area going for. The bmws 3 active hybrid starts at 50k (sure it has 340hp). Question can you get it in x form?
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,500
    Yes, you do.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • Hello everyone,
    I'm very attached to my TL-S and start to hyperventilate when I think of another car I will have to buy and drive (eventually).
    It is low mileage 78000, will turn 11 in November, dealer maintained. 2 "bumps" were fixed.
    I don't know or feel any problems. The question is since I am emotional about this car and
    can't let go of it. I already had an old car that I was pouring money into until they couldn't fix it and I was getting stalled at red lights and I gave up after being towed 3 times...yep, that's me.)
    I saw that this is the last year when I can get a $1,500 loyalty bonus.
    Should I be car shopping?
    I went to the test drive today of both 2013 TL and SH options, my car feels more like SH, but I don't like the gas usage- 18mpg city b/c that's where I drive. I get 21 mpg now.
    i am not comfortable in the seat - the headrest is bothering me and side visibility isn't good for me either. The TL is feeling much tighter.
    I am afraid that I won't be able to sell a 2003 car later. I enjoy my car and would buy the same one, only new :-) Thank you for your advice
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,500
    Ooops, just one word can change the meaning. I wanted to say "yes, THEY do", i.e. they'll offer xdrive version with 328d. Sorry.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • billyperksiibillyperksii Posts: 198
    I figured more than less that it is.
    I will hold on some more to my Pearly White SH.
    I am hoping that the new model year will look more European and not like what I am seeing coming out of Japan right now- Lexus and Infiniti.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,238
    edited June 2013
    FN....I didn't realize BMW had wagons out. I just never seen them on the road or at my local dealer.

    Billy....Saw that blurb on the TL SE. I've heard no rumors....not even a hint, that they plan on bringing out a TL-S. That said, I'm not sure what they would have in the cupboard that would warrant a TL-S. Not sure what the 3.5L from the current RLX would net them. Maybe slap some Brembos and fancy wheels on a regular TL...include their PAWS system. Aside from that, what more could they do given what we know of their available drivetrains? Maybe slap the hybrid motivation that's coming out later this year for the RLX?

    Still, for the roughly $40K my sister just paid for her TL SH AWD Advance, I don't see anything remotely close to it for that kind of money given the level of performance and the content.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,500
    edited June 2013
    Wagons... "We don't have them because they don't sell". Of course they don't sell because nobody has them :sick:
    Similar deal with manual tranny. I once, couple of years ago or so, went online and checked all dealers within 100 miles of my Tampa. I think five or six, more than 200 3-series in stock at that time. Not a single manual, no matter coupe, sedan, convertible. No wagons, of course, but that's "normal". Florida is really strange market. Majority of Audis sold here are FWD. To me FWD Audi is like decaf - yeah, you can have one, but what's the point.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,998
    edited June 2013
    How many times have I heard "the reason they don't sell is because they offer them". Well, they used to offer plenty of wagons and sticks. However, dealers stopped ordering what they couldn't sell. What a novel idea.....stock what people buy.

    Having said that, I can see no reason why any car can't be special ordered with the trans of choice. If it costs a little more because it may be a glitche in the production routine than charge a little more to the customer. If a customer really wants something and is willing to pay why not provide it. Now when it comes to station wagons, that's a whole different ballgame because of a number of possible reasons including crash tests, EPA tests, availability of repair parts, component suppliers, etc.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,500
    edited June 2013
    The problem is of course instant gratification mindset. Buying a car today means taking it home today. This is what both customers and dealers want - orders are just additional paperwork and trouble, people can change their minds, every salesman would tell you until it's in the customer's garage, it is not sold. In other parts of the world there is a different mindset - people basically think if they spend so much money, they want everything right. It's very common to make an order and wait 3 months. Here only a few manufacturers (mostly lux brands) are trully geared toward this setup. Others may do it, but they act as it were a big favor. There are some dealers that flat out refuse to do a special order, even if the manufacturer takes it. Then there is Honda and handful of others - they don't take any dealer's orders, they make them and then they push them on the dealers. I heard there were some bribery scandals in Honda corporate, as dealers were trying to buy their consideration for more attractive lines and models. The best you can hope for with Honda is that they'll take the "order" and try to fit it into what's coming off the production line.

    BTW, I always wondered if crash tests required all engine/transmission configurations to be checked, as different total mass, distribution of essential drivetrain components, etc. could justify such requirement. If so, that would be another reason to ditch manual transmissions.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,818
    I heard there were some bribery scandals in Honda corporate, as dealers were trying to buy their consideration for more attractive lines and models.

    All automakers do that. Back when the Explorer was the top selling vehicle, dealers had to take 3 pink Escorts for every extra Explorer they wanted....
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,578
    Yes, dino001. All engine & transmission configurations MUST be crash tested.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,998
    edited June 2013
    As to crash tests, I don't know about different engine/transmission combos but I would think a complete different body style would certainly require testing. A lot of manufactures offer sticks in their entry level models so I wouldn't think just a tranny difference would be much of a player.

    Dealers in Europe often have a very small footprint and car buying is almost exclusively by order. When the U.S. started selling cars there was plenty of land to spread out and build huge dealerships so a big part of the difference in mindset was the availability of space. Sames as car size. Long, wide roads equaled land yachts! Europe and Asian roads on the most part in cities and countryside are much narrower and for the most part, cover shorter distances. IMO if their auto industry had grown up with the wide open spaces that were the norm in the U.S. things would be much different.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,637
    Dino its not that I was misinformed, it as my data is old, and thank you for sharing the info. Is there info on the diesel wagon?
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,500
    edited June 2013
    No, 328/335 GT and 328d sedan seem to be all that's new for 2014 3-series (and some option/line tweaking, of course), at least now. I suspect that if it's coming, it'll be 2015 (just a guess). I say IF just because there is no mentioning of it anywhere but here, by you. Future vehicles section has nothing, bimmerfest doesn't either.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,500
    Yeah, I can see that. All makers have allotments and quotas for each model. The difference is Honda dealer gets the configs what distributor decides, while BMW dealer orders his cars exactly as he/she wants, subject to model allotments with only exclusions being some colors are available only on real customer order only. Well, "only" is a bit strong, because it is quite common for new car managers to make up a fake name if they want that M-line blue on their lot.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,818
    But don't forget that Honda has a much simpler model/feature selection and doesn't have options like other manufacturers. For the most part it's pick your model, pick your engine, pick your transmission, pick your seat material and select NAV/no NAV.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,147
    Dino good response given the source. Misinformed and old data never a good mix when talking cars on this board. Going to be interesting how this new go around with D cars in the market- Chevy vw BMW trying to make it more mainstream. I've never ridden or drove in a D before- but given the reviews of the prev 335d I would love to.

    Btw at local bmw dealer they have 3 2014 wagons on the website- cheapests one is over 54k and runs to 57 and change- wow
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