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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,867
    tifighter - I think most forums software platforms have some similarities, but vbulletin, as I recall, didn't offer us the kind of flexibility, support, and features we needed. I think they just sell their software, and offer a bit of support, but we want more than a sort of box-package plan.

    houdini1 - I can't give a firm timeframe yet. I'm not in on that process just yet, but we will provide as much notice as we can. It's not going to be like you log in and it looks like this one day, and then, surprise! It's all different without warning the next.

    Best bet is to post in our Forums Future discussion (though I had trouble finding it) as it's monitored by those more knowledgeable than I am.
    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f26f976/58
    Feel free to ask questions or make suggestions.

    Side note: trying to get the link to that forum took me forEVER getting the page to load. I will most certainly not miss that.

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  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,497
    edited September 2013
    Would be nice if that was gone. Another thing I really miss is a "future models" section that old Edmunds used to have. It always had a newest updates of the state of the knowledge about future models, sometimes not entirely accurate, because it was based on available (inclomplete) data and a little speculation/conjecture, but it was a good source of what was likely coming down the pike. I'm wondering why it was removed. Too hard to maintain and not enough interest?

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,536
    I agree with you sweendogy about the current G37X being a fantastic value. A friend of mine was just in an Infiniti dealership this afternoon. They offered to lease him a 2013 G37X (no navigation) for 24 months with absolutely $0 down for $325 per month (including 6.35% tax). That's a deal!

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,867
    Yes, and yes. However, again... the new platform has more flexibility and we hope to see more "future models" talk there, and potentially create more future model talk. If you mention your interest in a Future Models category over on the discussion I linked to, it'll be noticed.

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  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,215
    Kirstie....thanks for the update. Have been through a total WEB site revamp with my company. Not fun....especially when you're also changing WEB software and hosting sites.

    Drifiting even further off topic, there's been a Tesla cruising around my neighborhood for a few months....Beautiful car. Interesting to note, there isn't a Tesla dealership within 5 hours of me. So, I'm trying to find out who owns it so I can see how s/he came to get it.

    Even a further drift, saw an NSX on the road over the weekend. Haven't seen one of those in a couple of years. Still a beautiful car.
  • skobolaskobola Posts: 207
    edited September 2013
    Graphicguy, I have heard somewhere that Tesla has tried to establish themselves as one of the companies and car manufacturers that has the online communications with its customers. Of course, as most of users will not be able to service their cars online, they still have to have actual service centers. Provided that most of us still have to test-drive the car before the purchase, I guess that this also involves dealerships. Therefore, I believe that the best way for you to find your information is at http://www.teslamotors.com/. Good luck! BTW, I saw one Tesla S, and it is a beautiful car!
  • tifightertifighter WAPosts: 1,376
    We are just finishing a new website at my company. Originally marketing was saying they thought it would be ready in March. Not live yet, so its a typical website rollout.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,327
    What kind of sales price would be equivalent to that lease deal?

    I'd peg the value of a G37x at around 35K-37K.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,076
    edited September 2013
    Although I had read the R&T comparison on-line, my physical magazine arrived in the mail yesterday (Monday 9/23) -- and I re-read the Q50 v ATS v 335 v IS 350 F-Sport article. I assume you could infer that I am carrying Infiniti's water, but the article did make a comment that even the loser (or 3rd finisher) in the bunch was a "nice car."

    For those of you who think the Q50 isn't really an upgrade of the G37 -- and assuming you haven't seen one in person, or haven't gotten behind the wheel and haven't driven it -- the Q50 has a seriously upscale (non-Nissan) interior, an exterior that advances the theme (even if you don't like it or aren't drawn to it, it does show more than just a slightly evolutionary change).

    Yes the engine of the new Q50 is the same as the outgoing engine (and transmission); but, somehow the Q50 at full cry compared with the G37 under similar circumstances, sounds and feels several steps more refined, less harsh, less "thrashy."

    All the tech stuff -- that seems to be universally dissed -- is part of a package that you need not order. Unfortunately, all the apparently loathed tech: self-driving, pseudo-psychic stuff has to be selected (and endured) to get blind spot monitoring.

    A nice long test drive in a new Q50S/AWD reveals it to be a major update in luxury and performance. Your decision to consider these updates as improvements is, well, YOUR decision.

    I had thought, at MSRP, the Q50 could possibly be the new winna and champeen sports sedan -- when compared to the 4-cylinder Audi A4, BMW 3 series and Cadillac ATS. I can now count at least five (5) negative articles (3 of them comparison articles) about the new Q50 in "major" car enthusiasts' magazines. One negative, no problem, two negatives, "I can explain," but five articles that deride the lack of a solid steering column or reveal the Q50 to come in fourth (out of four) or second (out of two) and so on, are gonna require some heavy 'splainin' or some major sub-venting whilst Infiniti's designers and engineers apply numerous PTF's, service packs and point-releases in an effort to shore up the car's shortcomings and earn it the right to ask for a "re-do" review and comparison.

    I wouldn't be shocked if an all tricked out Q50S/AWD is offered thusly: Buy one, get one free!

    Well, OK, maybe that is unlikely.

    Meanwhile, holy cow, Car and Driver and Road and Track BOTH proclaim an IS 350 the winna and champeen over a BMW 335! And, comparably equipped the 335 is likely to cost five-figures more than the IS. Get your IS while they're hot!

    Perhaps, however, the Cadillac ATS is an even more significant "loser" as it keeps coming up short despite a best ever chassis.

    I thought it was particularly damning that the R&T article commented that the 3.6L six in the ATS was the same engine (virtually if not quite literally) as is used to motivate the new Impala.

    The American and Japanese mfgrs, Cadillac, Infiniti and Lexus, need to bring out either super or turbo charged 4's and 6's -- ASAP! Frankly, I was damn near stunned that the 335's engine couldn't seal the deal -- proclaiming the Lexus engine as the second best engine was impressive considering its age.

    Test driving note:

    Until last Thursday, the Audi A7 3.0T was one of the best (if not the best) cars I have ever driven. The supercharged engine coupled with that 8-speed transmission coupled with the feel of the car at high speeds coupled with the way it took corners all came together in a car that was attainable without robbing a bank.

    Last Thursday, my Audi dealer called to offer me a test drive of a new 2014 S4 with the 7-speed DSG transmission. The S4 tester had the upgraded leather seats, the "pin-stripe" black wood trim, B&O sound system and an Audi Exclusive blue pearl paint (at a breathtaking price), to name other "available" options. It was just south of $59,000 (less than an A7 by far.)

    Again, with the qualification that this car is "attainable" by mere mortals (if they are upper-middle class, that is), I would say the S4 is sublime, the best ever I have ever . . . . :surprise:

    The transmission is practically telepathic or perhaps to put a finer point on it, the transmission is a mind-reader. Holy cow, please (who ever I can plead my case to) make this 7-speed DSG transmission an option on EVERYTHING you build.

    As it is very easy to get a BMW 335 to the "upper fifties" and as the current trend seems to be to compare the 335 to the ATS, the Q50 and of course the IS, it would seem a five-way comparison wherein an S4 was included (perhaps without the high-zoot leather and big-buck paint job and the most expensive dash trim) would be a no brainer. After all, an S4 can be easily configured -- and desirable -- and still be in the lower fifties.

    It wouldn't surprise me if the S4 bettered both the 335 and the IS 350.

    As Cheech and Chong once said, "I saw god, man!"

    The S4 -- with the MSRP qualification -- is currently my favorite car (of any car that I and other mere mortals could afford).

    We're, er, I'm not worthy.

    DILYL.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,327
    edited September 2013
    Your findings on the S4 are the same as mine. Which is why I ordered one lightly optioned and got the dealer to agree to take only 50K out of my bank accounts (don't worry, CA will take about 5K more before it's all said and done.

    Should be arriving at my location 2nd week of November or so.

    The Q50 would be better with the S4's brakes, drive train (engine & transmission) for sure!

    So would the IS 350. So would the ATS. So would the 335i.

    I'm picking the supercharged Audi 3.0L V6 all day and night, and all the other manufacturers really need to pay Audi to buy rights to use the 7-speed DSG in their own automatics.

    In my view, once you go DSG, you never go back. The other automatics are not competitive at all in my opinion; even with 8 gears.

    I hear BMW has a good dual clutch in the M-series, but that isn't in the $50K ball park.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,215
    Mark...you'll get not rebuttal from me regarding the S4. Drop the "pearlescent" paint, the hi-zoot seats, and the "whatzatstuff" trim, and you should be able to make a case for a low $50-ish check with your dealer (but you'll probably have to go to Beechmont Audi to make that score).

    S4 w/Premium Plus, B&O stereo, DSG should get you to that ballpark.

    Now, if they could just make it so they can keep it out of its 2nd home in the dealer's service bay..........

    I read the same rags as you. Never could understand why they don't include an S4 in those Sport/Lux comparisons. I can't see how it would lose against the usual suspects.

    That 3.0 S/C motor is under rated by Audi. the BMW 3.0L dual scroll turbo is really good. The Audi 3.0 S/C is better. Torque can be found everywhere. And, the DSG is the best transmission I've ever used....on any car, at any price. Ride, handling...superb. The S4 steering should make BMW uber jealous.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,750
    Your findings on the S4 are the same as mine.

    Sounds like that new fabulous Infiniti isn't swaying you guys.

    Congratulations on the S4, I know when I had my Audi I really loved it.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,327
    Thanks, well, if it performs as reliably as my '06 A3 with 104K+ miles, I'll be a very happy camper.

    If it ends up in the shop as much as Graphic Guy's '13 S4, I'll need a lemon law lawyer on standby to get me an exchange for a "good" one.

    Had a Southern CA Audi Club driving event this last weekend, and no one was complaining about their recent model S4 and S5's. A lot of S4's and S5's by the way, a higher percentage certainly of the total cars than in years past. One TTS, one R8, and one RS5 for good measure too.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,536
    My friend didn't remember the particulars of the exact sale price. The MSRP was in the $37 - $38K neighborhood

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,215
    andres3....don't use my experience as a measuring stick. I came to the conclusion a while ago that both dealers around me have relatively inept service depts. But, as long as they keep me in some nice loaners (which they have), I'll put up with it...at least until the new '15 TLs come out.

    I'm half tempted to pull a sweet deal on a '13-'14 TL given the deals they're making. I really did like what they did with the '13 my sister bought....they made a lot of subtle refinements and updates that made the whole car a nicer piece.
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Waleska, GeorgiaPosts: 791
    Even with all the revisions, the 2013 TL (especially the 'Base' model) is not appealing to me in the least. It's not blatantly hideous like the 2009 version, but it's so bland looking down the boring wheel design. The Special Edition looks much better, IMO.

    I went by the Acura dealer near my office last week and they had 11 or 12 2013 Base TL models lined up with $31,900 plastered on the windshield. They were all Bellanova White Pearl (Iridescent Beige) or Basque Red Pearl II (similar to the color of a bloodclot)! But they had one Graphite TL Special Edition on the showroom floor and it looked so much better!

    I'm anxious to see what becomes of the TL/TSX (TLX?) in the near future....
  • Having leased the original 335i (before kids) it was the best drive I ever had even tho it was in the shop for a blown accessory belt and the High Pressure Fuel pump. The service, loaner car and refund of a lease payment does offset the inconvenience.

    I am jumping back into a sedan after a few years in the people mover - MDX. I can't decide on a daily driver that can handle east coast weather: S4, 335ix or CLA-45.

    They all price out similarly - although the AMG is a smaller class and in high demand - pre-order wait lists.
    S4: Bland styling (I had a 02 A4 1.8t and there hasn't been much change)
    335ix - Been there, and now bogging it down with x-drive
    AMG: Will it fit a booster and carseat?

    My heart says AMG, accountant/Dad says 335 or S4. I am starting to feel too old for the AMG and maybe the S4 styling is aimed at my demographic.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,631
    S4: Bland styling (I had a 02 A4 1.8t and there hasn't been much change)

    Just by your comment means you haven't driven one.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,669
    I took that statement referring to the design exclusively...meaning there hasn't been a dramatic change in design; such as the new impala compared to the old one.

    Personally I feel it, the S4, is one of the best designs out there.

    I'd image (haven't driven it) that the difference between the 1.8 and the S4 are worlds apart...
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,327
    LOL, the difference between the 1.8 T and 2.0T is worlds apart if you ask me, and that's the 200 HP 2.0T version.

    The current A4 has more power and torque yet, and well, the S4 uses the supercharged 3.0 V6.

    To each there own, the CLA just doesn't do anything for me style wise, and I'm suspicious the interior will be downgraded quite a bit.

    I wonder how the AMG version of the CLA will compare with the C63.
  • I know - it was just a frame of reference for styling and how Audi used to be the leader and now seems stale and now Benz is the most progressive.

    No doubt, I had a loaner 2.0t and yes its worlds apart and 335i was galaxies apart. No S4 experience but I would guess it is a notch above 335 and the AMG will be the quickest if not most fun.

    I saw the CLA in the showroom and the interior is clearly not the same as E class and probably on par in size with the 1.8t. Which is why I am reconsidering the S4 if for the same price I gain some comfyness and giving up some points in style. I am hoping as the S3 releases, Audi will be tweaking the S4 and maybe giving incentives.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,327
    For me I still can't get over how the C-class cars, (and I'm guessing the CLA) don't have body colored roof seams (or even better, no roof seam rails at all (ala VW/Audi).

    BMW at least paints the plastic roof seam/rail trim. The remodel of the C-class interior recently was a pretty good job, thank goodness, the previous generation got outclassed by some economy cars.

    I did like the way the rear drive sport C250 and C300 I test drove handled, but felt they were overpriced for what you got.
  • The interior of the S4 with two options -- upgraded seats and the "pinstripe suit" dash trim is drop dead gorgeous.

    Drive an S4 with the DSG transmission; put the transmission into "S" and be treated to mind reading awe inspiring performance -- without the torque vectoring rear (sport) diff even.

    Feel -- or perhaps better said "sense" -- the car downshift as you slow, smoother than anyone could shift a stick and without any pause. There aren't enough o's in smoooth to describe this, it must be, begs to be driven. A deep well of torque awaits your command with zero lag -- whoosh, it is like upgrading your iPhone 5 to the new operating system and watching your email client make the jump to light speed.

    Here is my regret -- the difference between the 2.0T and the 3.0T "A" and "S" 4 is a chasm a giant, deep and wide chasm. The A4 needs to be offered with the 3.0T engine as it is offered in the Q5 3.0T. Also, for some price, the DSG transmission ought to be offered on the 2.0T, the milder 3.0T and the wilder 3.0T (as it is already there).

    Were Audi to offer the 8-speed tip and the 7-speed DSG across the board (of three engines), I would look forward to win after win after win for these sport ,sedans: the A4, the AS4 and the S4. Nice as the new IS 350 F Sport is, I would expect the AS4 and with absolute certainly the S4 to be seeing the IS's LED's in its rearview mirror.

    And, for the money -- in this league -- the S4 and the 335 would be competitive (with each other, at least). Of course the IS and even the ATS can certainly be considered the value leaders; yet, the Q50/S is already so highly subvented (and it is likely to remain thus until its issues are behind it) that even with its faults is an attractive alternative for those who want an upscale high content premium car.

    A friend of mine used to say Audi's are for the left-brainers and BMW's are for the right-brainers -- meaning that "programmers" drove Audis and the Vice-president of Sales drove BMWs. I think now the Q50 has become the "programmers" [geek squad] car and, well, these days "everyone wants to be Audi."

    Treat yourself -- take a nice long test drive in a 2014 S4 with the DSG transmission -- you may be worthy. Me? I'm still not worthy -- but I'm working on it.

    DILYL
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,215
    335i vs S4. Have owned both. S4 wins.

    I've test driven Benzs in the past. Almost pulled the trigger on a c350 4 matic coupe that the (then) GF wanted. I agree. For that money, you can get an S5.

    I also looked at a C300 before I bought the 335i. Once again, I could never see the MB being able to match, let alone exceed, the drive of the BMW for the same money.

    CLA is a lesser version of all those cars, even in AMG guise.

    Personally, I'd test drive the S4. As others have said, that's what will hook you. I'd also look at the IS350, for no other reason than all the positive press it has received, just to see if it fits what you're looking for.
  • The CLA has been the cause of a decent amount of journalistic drool for months and months and months. The tarted up version has caused some who write about cars and get paid for doing so to be unabashedly aroused, in fact.

    Check out the comments about the upcoming A3 -- I don't have them right in front of me, but the gist is something like "the new A3 is everything we all wanted the CLA to be -- and there is an S3 version coming shortly after the A3 quattro hits showrooms next year."

    Can't believe I'm saying this: IMHO, BMW -- a brand that I love AND think is breathtakingly expensive -- looks like a bargain compared to any Mercedes I can think of. Would love to see an S4 reviewed side by side with a comparably PRICED Mercedes.

    The S4 would be high contented compared to the Merc and the S4 would make the worthy opposition sweat.

    Me? Again, I am looking for content and performance and bang for the buck. Hate to say it, but the IS 350 F-Sport makes a compelling case (when compared to even the god-like S4).

    You know, all the criticism about Infiniti and Lexus bringing out new cars with "old" engines does have merit. But, even so, the IS 350 seems to win the pros over in spite of its "old" engine. I get sweaty palms just imagining what would happen if Lexus told its engineers to make the requisite changes to the 350's powerplant to allow it to accept either a super or turbo charger. :surprise:

    "Happy motoring and back to the freeway which is already in progress." Firesign Theatre
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,327
    If your 6'2" or taller the IS350 may still be a tad "small" for your tastes.

    I'm 6'3" and I'm not sure I'd fit in one even with the seat all the way down if I had a helmet on.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,794
    I'm 6'3" and I'm not sure I'd fit in one even with the seat all the way down if I had a helmet on.

    Luckily, most of us don't need to judge a vehicle based on helmet space.

    :)
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,215
    You guys are making me want to take an IS350 for a test drive. Might as well take a gander at the GS350 while I'm at it.;)
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,631
    I saw the CLA in the showroom and the interior is clearly not the same as E class and probably on .

    Which dealer since they are not due in the showrooms until Late Nov or early Dec?
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,215
    FN...it seems like they've had the CLA announced for a year. But, as you say, they aren't even in the showrooms, yet. By the time they hit, all that "pre"-delivery marketing will have been forgotten.
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