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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,325
    I recommend you exchange your lemon S4 for a real new S4. After all, what are the chances you'll get two lemons in a row?

    Especially considering Audi is now more reliable brand-wide than Infinity!

    A serious accomplishment, but I can't blame you for being weary based on your own personal experience.

    If Acura improves the 5 or 6 key points of problems I noticed with the TL-SH-AWD, they will have a winner on their hands with the 2015 version.

    1) no plastic trim/rails on the roof!
    2) 330+ HP
    3) Dual Clutch Transmission please!
    4) 200+ pounds lighter, & more balanced weight distribution (such as moving front brake calipers to back side of wheel).
    5) Make the awesome sound system with DVD-A standard.
    6) Make the good leather (Milano Leather) standard. Offer the brown leather interior color in more than just the Advance trimming.
    7) Offer better colors and more selection!
    8) Make it better looking and more stylish.

    9) Sell it for $40K out the door Taxes included.

    If they had met 6 or 7 of the above 9 items, I'd already be sold.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,150
    edited November 2013
    ray...my apologies. I thought you had said you were moving away from BMW. I was wrong.

    andres...you bring up a very good point. What are the odds to S4s are problematic?

    I'll have to get my hands on my sister's TL and drive it again. I remember thinking it drove really well...much better than the one I had 4 years prior. Her leather is nicer than the leather I have in the S4. So, I guess the key is to get the upper models of the TL to get the real "goodies". I know she bought her TL SH AWD Advance for around $40K, give or take, that's a lot of performance and a lot of really nice car for that price.

    We'll see how this plays out with my S4.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,221
    Especially considering Audi is now more reliable brand-wide than Infinity!

    You are speaking of "initial quality" are you not? Big difference.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,486
    No, I it's also improved for longer term, according to Consumer Reports, not just initial. The rank is based on surveys for several years back and represents forward projection of those results.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,221
    huh. Interesting... kind of.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,325
    edited November 2013
    I'll be the first to knock initial quality as a relatively useless thing.

    After all, my lemon-like Dodge Neon had reasonably OK initial quality. It was the long term quality that reared its ugly head over and over.

    The problem was there was no long term quality, it was planned to be obsolete the day after 3 years or the mile after 36,000.

    That being said, there were some early tell tale signs that it was not going to be an acceptable car. My view is if I have a significant amount of problems in the first 3 years, odds are it'll be exponentially more after warranty. Then again, my friends Altima blew it's engine and transmission in its first month, and ended up being extremely reliable for about 5-6 years, and then all hell broke loose again.

    2nd failed CVT transmission and failed CAT Converter (both covered by Nissan because Nissan knows they are failure prone). I'm still waiting for a "extended Neon" warranty check from Chrysler.

    Not holding my breath though, it's obvious that Chrysler's culture views a car that has failed head gaskets, AC compressor, and auto transmission all by 60,000 miles (in addition to about 15 other things that broke) as perfectly normal. As the dealer service manager told me "parts just break down."

    My experience at Honda and Audi and (my best friend with Nissan) is just the polar opposite, it is a culture where parts breakdowns are unacceptable! If it happens, they seem to do they're absolute best at minimizing them.

    For example, Honda replacing my transmission out of warranty at 42K miles for free, and doing it in 2.5 days. Audi fixed my AC at 53,000 miles out of warranty in a very similar manner (though it took 2 weeks, but I had an A4 loaner so I was happy). Audi sending me a check for nearly $700 for failed induction control modules since it was warrantied retroactively to 120,000 miles, and my best friends experience with Nissan above.

    My AC failed at literally year 3 - day 3 (under 36K miles), and Dodge never blinked an eye for offering assistance.

    Head gaskets at 40 or 45k, Dodge dealer made no comment.

    Auto transmission at 60k (independent shop's comment was "I can't believe they are still using those cheap ancient 3-speeds.")

    I think I'm justified in not only boycotting the Big 3 for life, but forbidding my children (at least until age 18 I think I can) to give the Big 3 any money. After 18 I'll just have to disown them if they do so. :P
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,769
    Out of curiosity, you call the Neon yours but you've also said it was your parents. Which is it?
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,150
    Dropped the Audi off yesterday for another attempt for the dealer to fix the MMI and drivetrain grinding/binding issues.

    They put me in an A6...only this time with the 4 cyl turbo. I wanted one with the 3.0 S/C. But, the only loaners they had were the A6 and an A4 with the same motor. I took the A6.

    Surprisingly, the 4 cyl turbo in the A6 does a good job. It's certainly light years smoother than BMW's 4 turbo. Understand, this is a heavy car. And, there's a noticeable fall off in acceleration with the turbo 4. But, if you're not really a performance car enthusiast, you get the handling and ride of the A6 with a wee bit of "sprightliness" thrown in.

    Not sure the difference in price between it and the A6 3.0, but if anyone's in the market for an A6, and one can be had in the low $40K range (not sure about that last part), it might be worh a look.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,602
    graphic, there is a 8K difference between the turbo 4 and SC V6. You have to move up the mid level Premium Plus.

    I find the turbo engines to do a adequate job of moving the cars around town. My BMW makes 200 lbs of torque at 1250 RPM, about 500 RPMs above idle. Like the BMW there is a chip for the Audi (really VW) turbo 4, which will increase HP to roughly 256hp, and increase torque to about 290lbs total cost about $350. Which I believe just increased boost +3 lbs over stock and remaps the air fuel mixture. It's not as much power as your S4, but to get into a A6 and have some more power for under 45K not bad..
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,150
    FN....just drove down to Lexington this a.m. in the A6. It's a big car, obviously. But, the 4 cyl turbo does indeed do well in "normal" driving. I was quite surprised the amount of "zing" it has passing on the interstate. If it were mine, I would have to "chip" it, though.

    I'll have to get behind the wheel of a 320i someday. Yours sounds very nice.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,602
    Graphic, this is how manufactures are playing the displacement game, with the turbo engine, allow the engine to make good amount of power down low to "fool" people into thinking it has more then advertise, also the 8 spd transmission does not hurt either.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,325
    It was a joint purchase between my Dad and I.

    I drove it 95%+ of the miles. He'd rarely drive it.

    For all intents and purposes it was mine with his financial contribution.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,325
    The 2.0T engine from VW/Audi is indeed a great all-around motor. It does work best tuned to Stage 1, 1+, or 2.

    Or better yet, hold out for the new S3 said to equal the 335i performance (300 HP and 300 lb./ft. of torque) with the fantastic 2.0T motor in a 3,100 lb. car. The 2.0T motor is meant to propel cars that are 3,000 to 3,300 pounds, not 2 tons.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,744
    The latest CR doesn't think too highly of the new Infiniti G27 follow on. Did anybody see that?
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,150
    tlong....I didn't see the entire article, but I did see a blurb stating that Infiniti badly missed the mark (or something to that affect)?

    FN...Andre....while I like my vehicles with more....ummm...gusto, I can see the appeal of the new(er) 4 cyl turbo lux vehicles. I can see the appeal of the A6 with the 2.0L turbo. Not my cup of tea. But, it hits a price point and hits most of the "tic" boxes one would expect of this type of car (omitting power).

    If the 6 cyl motors in these cars weren't so darn good (Audi S/C 3.0, BMW turbo 3.0, Acura 3.7, etc), and perform so well, I might be able to pry myself away from them. As it stands, I'm still a big fan of the 6s.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,244
    edited November 2013
    "The Cadillac CTS was the 2014 Motortreands Car of the Year."

    That can be faint praise, once the history of the COTY over the decades is reviewed. The Chevy Vega (1971) and the Renault Alliance (1983) are two stellar examples. The Lincoln LS (2000) lasted 6-7 years before it was discontinued altogether. That one left a particularly sour taste in my mouth.

    GM does advertise a lot, though.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,508
    'The Lincoln LS (2000) lasted 6-7 years before it was discontinued altogether. That one left a particularly sour taste in my mouth. '
    Mine, too.
    - Ray
    Such potential there ......
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,468
    I agree 100%. wasn't the Neon given the COTY award too?

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,508
    Another potential ELLPS contender
    for my $s - come the time...
    http://www.edmunds.com/audi/s3/2015/road-test.html
    - Ray
    Not exactly a road 'test' IMHO ....
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,769
    Keep in mind that Motor Trend Car of the Year doesn't mean it's the best car ever made or even available. The award is given to a car that is all new or substantially changed and is judged on superiority, significance and value.

    When introduced, the winners are usually a significant entry for the maker. The Vega was Chevy's first attempt at down sized economy car. The LS was Lincoln's BMW fighter. The K cars were Chrysler's first FWD cars.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,244
    edited November 2013
    First, there are good intentions, then there's execution, and last there's follow-through.

    The only rental car (& I've rented a bunch of them) that left me beside the road wishing it was 25 years later (so I could have had a cell phone) was the Alliance. My parents bought a Vega.

    Execution and follow-through matter at least in the world of automobiles. That said, the collective memory of the public is short, very short.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,150
    ray....I've been reading a lot about the S3 recently. I wonder if its performance will encroach upon the S4's turf?
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,325
    edited November 2013
    Probably, but you'll have to live with a smaller car.

    I chose the S4 for 2 reasons over the S3.

    1) I can use the extra space and size.

    2) The S3 would probably keep me waiting another year (or close to it).

    3) From what I understand it has the same old 6-speed DSG in the S3, and I really think it needs that 7th gear as in the S4.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,150
    andres....interesting car (S3) nonetheless. I agree, the S4 will probably be a larger vehicle with more amenities available.

    The Audi dealer called me this a.m. Service manager said they started with the MMI issues. Apparently, Audi corporate said I was using "non-compliant CDs" and my iPod wasn't running an authorized version of iOS. Huh?

    I bought the CDs from Best Buy. All of them are "non-compliant"? iPod came right from Apple and iOS updates came straight from Apple's iTunes WEB site. Service Manager says he understands my frustration. But, he did download some sort of firmware. He said I should test it when I ge the car back. I told him my iPod and CDs are still in the car. All he has to do is to plug in the iPod or play a CD to see if they still cut out all the time.

    He sounded frustrated, but said he would. When I inquired about the next step if it doesn't work, he said they'd have to remove the entire dash and colsole to get the MMI out...to replace the MMI. His feeling is if one didn't work, a new one, with the same software, may not work, either. I asked him what happens then? He said..."I don't know". Geesh!

    They haven't even touched the grinding/binding Quattro system yet.

    This is not going well.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,486
    edited November 2013
    Sorry about your issues. Such a great car, such a waste. Your MMI issues just made me realize, two 328 loaners I had in past year had both refuse to play the iPod nano I have - it's the slightly older generation. My own 328 has no problem playing it, but those two brand spanking new ones, did not recognize it. Same cable, same connection, same brand. Much smaller issue, of course, not even my car, but it just tells me when it comes to electronics, it's always a crap shoot. They charge you full price, but when it doesn't work they tell you what can ya' da - it's electronics, it's new, it's cutting edge (by that they mean, it cuts or it works on the edge of failure).

    This lack of accountability in software industry is trully staggering. They charge you arm and leg, license agreements that say they are not responsible for anything, even if it causes nuclear explosion and act like doing you some enormous favor when you want the darn thing to work as described. After two half-a** attempts, they tell you to buy newer and improved version that has no real guarantee to work, either. Of course for full price.... OK, you get 10% "upgrade discount". No other industry has it better. Since software is now everywhere, the culture of non-accountability spread like a disease.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,769
    My own 328 has no problem playing it, but those two brand spanking new ones, did not recognize it.

    Many audio systems do have issues with older iPod and iPhones. Basically, they aren't expected to last years and years and as such the audio companies the manufacturers use do not build in compatibility for those older models.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,602
    Andres, there is only so much one can do to these engines before things start to break.

    I know that the aftermarket has had a chiip for the 1.8T and 2.0T for years, with the added 56hp and 50lbs of torque it really transforms these cars.

    The A3/S3 look like fun cars, but man are they small (smaller then the current A4) and for most just too small. Give me a A4 with a chipped 2.0 and a DSG..
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,486
    edited November 2013
    That s**ks. Why something costing $150 and more should not last at least 5 years. What kind of mindset is that? My Nano is about 4 years old. That's way too short for new cars not to recognize it. :(

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,602
    Dino, you got me thinking, I have two two iPod Nano's first generation and third, My 320 plays what is on my iphone with no problems, plugged in my thrid Gen Nano with the current iOS and it played, I'm charging my first Gen Nano and will give see if it needs an update and will give it a try.
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