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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,812

    @flightnurse said: I don't think BMW has officially called this a 2 series. With all that BMW has put into renaming their cars and such, I don't see this staying a "2" series.

    Someone better call marketing then:

    http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicles/2series/active_tourer/2014/keep_informed/index.html

  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,621
    edited February 20

    @flightnurse said: I don't think BMW has officially called this a 2 series. With all that BMW has put into renaming their cars and such, I don't see this staying a "2" series.

    All what? This whole renaming scheme has turned into a collosal mess but I guess it's fair to point out that BMW is hardly the only automaker that can't come up with consistent model names. Then there's Lincoln whose model names are too consistent (everything is an MK-Something.)

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 5,102

    Isn't there going to be a 4-series "grand coupe" as well, like the 6-series? Isn't that just a fancy name for a sedan?

    I think the marketing folks at BMW are splitting hairs.

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,634

    @robr2 said: http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicles/2series/active_tourer/2014/keep_informed/index.htm l

    That's BMW's international website, not the BMWUSA website. (even though it's in English)

    That doesn't mean it won't happen here, but there you go...

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  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,812

    Yes there will be a 4 series Gran Coupe. The difference is that the Gran Coupes have a lower roof line than traditional sedans.

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,500

    @Michaell@Edmunds said: Isn't there going to be a 4-series "grand coupe" as well, like the 6-series? Isn't that just a fancy name for a sedan?

    Yes and I'm quite excited about it. It will have a rear hatch, just like GT, but it will be lower to the ground, i.e. much more sporty in driving experience. Unlike 3-series wagon, it will be available as 335 and my understanding is RWD, not just AWD, as both GT and wagon. On paper and pictures, 435i Sports Line (red exterior, black w/red stiching interior, red accents, high gloss inlays), may really be my next car. Will see how it will really look and feel when it comes.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,812

    I wonder if all the models that BMW is/will be offering will start to confuse potential customers?

    I guess that's why the are dumping salespeople and hiring "geniuses"?

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,849

    Being a tech genius is not the same as being a salesman. Many of us have experienced smart people who were lousy teachers.

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  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,812

    BMW doesn't want salespeople. They want geniuses who can explain the tech in BMW's in a clean, low pressure, stark environment - like Apple stores - to people who are used to shopping on-line.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,849

    But put yourself in the place of the dealership owner, with his massive investment. Apple stores are factory stores, not franchises. I'm not sure $500--$2000 products scale up to $50,000 products.

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  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,455

    You need both. Someone to part the suckers with 50-100K, and someone that can actually teach them to use it. Age of specialization.

    Even the Jetta my son got took a good half hour for the sales guy to walk through the basics of how stuff worked. And we know most people would never dream of cracking open the owners Manual.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (daughter stole that one), and 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again)

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,812
    edited February 20

    @MrShift@Edmunds said: But put yourself in the place of the dealership owner, with his massive investment. Apple stores are factory stores, not franchises. I'm not sure $500--$2000 products scale up to $50,000 products.

    ...and dealership owners know that the brand requires regular updates to the showroom both inside and out. This new look will just be the next iteration of BMW showrooms. In fact, dealerships are rewarded with more hot selling cars and incentives to keep their showrooms up to date.

  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,634

    My local BMW dealer already employs a "delivery specialist", that isn't a salesperson. They go over the car with the new buyer, pair the cell phones with the bluetooth, etc, etc... The salesperson shows them to the car, introduces the delivery specialist, then checks back when they are ready to go..

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,849

    That's a smart move, and eliminates early "come-backs" out of confusion.

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  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,637

    @kyfdx@Edmunds said: My local BMW dealer already employs a "delivery specialist", that isn't a salesperson. They go over the car with the new buyer, pair the cell phones with the bluetooth, etc, etc... The salesperson shows them to the car, introduces the delivery specialist, then checks back when they are ready to go..

    Yes the dealership I go to has 3 of these people on all the time. It could take up to an hour to show people all th e features and how to use them.... Smart move for BMW, but a little over due.

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,325

    BMW dealer paired my phone for me, and that was about it.

    Nissan salesman TRIED to show me how to use the Leaf, but that failed. He didn't know how to use most of the features.

    Thing is, I just had an issue this weekend in the T&C that would never have been resolved in Intro 101. I got a flat tire. There is no way in hell I would have ever been able to find and remove the spare tire from under the car if it weren't for the owner's manual (which was thankfully in the car). Even after removing the center console and lowering the spare to the ground using the special tool, I still didn't know how to get the damned cable off the spare, and even the owner's manual left that part out. Eventually got the job done, but not without alot of frustration.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,621

    @dino001 said: Yes and I'm quite excited about it. It will have a rear hatch, just like GT, but it will be lower to the ground, i.e. much more sporty in driving experience. Unlike 3-series wagon, it will be available as 335 and my understanding is RWD, not just AWD, as both GT and wagon. On paper and pictures, 435i Sports Line (red exterior, black w/red stiching interior, red accents, high gloss inlays), may really be my next car. Will see how it will really look and feel when it comes.

    It was news to me that they would make the Gran Sport a hatchback but I discovered this online>

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,621

    Just to keep us thoroughly confused, there will also be a 3 Series GT with a hatch>

    I hope they don't go broke with all these segment overlaps

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,500
    edited February 20

    @andys120 said: Just to keep us thoroughly confused, there will also be a 3 Series GT with a hatch>

    It already is here, last six months. I think, once GC is here and you look at them side by side, you'll see difference that is large enough to understand there is a real choice. GT is a peoplemover, large legroom, softer suspension, standard AWD, etc. - it was made for all those who want sporty BRAND, but [non-permissible content removed] about the rear seat, or "horrible hard suspension" in a sporty CAR. GC is more driver's car with SOME room for other people and improved cargo space, available as RWD. It is for people who know exactly what a "sporty coupe" really means (I said "sporty", not "sports"), but just want incremental (read limited) improvement in people and cargo moving abilities vs. traditional coupe.

    Think 5-series GT vs 6-series GC. Those are quite a bit different vehicles for different customers.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,812

    @andys120 said: Just to keep us thoroughly confused, there will also be a 3 Series GT with a hatch>

    I hope they don't go broke with all these segment overlaps

    Where's the required Hoffmeister kink??

  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,621

    @robr2 said: Where's the required Hoffmeister kink??

    Maybe BMW is tired of looking like all the brands that have copied "The Kink".

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,574

    @kyfdx

    When the previous generation 7 series was introduced in 2002, I actually interviewed for a position at the BMW dealer in Manattan to become an "iDrive Delivery Specialist." I didn't get the job because I questioned the way I'd be paid. It was to be a $200 per week base and then I'd get paid more based on a CSI score. I asked how my pay would be affected if someone's iDrive crashed before try got their survey. That was a chance I couldn't take living in Manhattan trying to support myself.

    @qbrozen

    My Dad had an '07 X5 which was the 1st car BMW introduced with the "beer tap shifter." One morning in a snow storm, he drove over a 2 x 4 (that he couldn't see). The "low coolant" light went on, so he pulled over, shut the truck off, and looked to see if there was any coolant spewing out from underneath it. He lifted the hood and everything looked OK. He fired the X5 back up and was about to head to the dealer, when he looked down at the dash and the low coolant light wasn't on anymore. So he continued on his way to work.

    Now I have to tell you that my Dad travels back and forth to work with his 2 Great Danes. He keeps a piece of plywood over the folded rear seats to keep his truck cleaner.

    Anyway, its snowing, it's 6:30 AM, and my Dad's X5 literally shuts off in the middle of the Tappan Zee Bridge. I'm cleaning off my Prelude getting ready to go to work and I see he keeps calling me. Maybe he plans to tell me about an accident on the way (we work together)? I listen to the voice mail, he says: "call me, I'm stuck on the bridge."

    I call him back and he tells me the story, then asks: "how do I get this thing into neutral so the thruway authority can load it on the flatbed?" He checks the owner's manual. Without the owner's manual we sold have never figured out:

    Remove the cup holder, remove the piece under the cup holder, remove red "T" key from the spare tire compartment. Stick the red "T" key into the square hole underneath the cup holders and twist to release the transmission so vehicle can be loaded on to flatbed.

    Just a few problems, he had to get out of the car in the snow on a bridge (cars flying by on the driver's side & the Hudson River on the passenger side). Open the rear lift gate to get to the "T" key where the spare tire is seems easy enough, except it was under a piece of plywood perfectly cut to fit the rear of the X5. The tow truck drivers from the NYS Thruway Authority can't help him because every time they try to help my Dad pick up the plywood, his 140 lb Great Danes start barking and scare the pants off the poor guys.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,480
    edited February 22

    @nyccarguy: Another reason to despise the beer tap. To me it feels flimsy and is non-intuitive. It is a classic example of BMW hell-bent on fixing something that wasn't broken- "Ja, ve vill be different because ve can, you stupid Amerikaners..."

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,237
    edited February 22

    @roadburner said: nyccarguy: Another reason to despise the beer tap. To me it feels flimsy and is non-intuitive. It is a classic example of BMW hell-bent on fixing something that wasn't broken- "Ja, ve vill be different because ve can, you stupid Amerikaners..."

    You'll get no argumet about that from me. Counterintuitive is being kind regarding their shifter. Eventually, many years later, they usually get it right (i.e. iDrive). But, it takes years of customers telling them they got it wrong to begin with for them to correct their mistakes.

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,637

    I find the comments about the new shifter interesting. I don't have a problem with it, yeah, at first it was odd, but now, I have no problems. Like anything else humans do not like change, but once we get use to the change, we are fine...

  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,480

    Change doesn't bother me- it is change for the sake of change that I find irritating. Sure, you can adjust to to the beer tap, but in what way is it an improvement over the shift lever it replaced? It's merely another example of Munich's focus on bells and whistles. Meanwhile, the driving experience that built BMW's modern legacy continues to devolve into mediocrity.

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,500
    edited February 23

    Beer tap shifter allowed them to release some space in center console for storage and decent cupholder. Regular shifter has larger range of movement and blocks more space. That's the story I heard from a salesman, anyway.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,621

    @dino001 said: Beer tap shifter allowed them to release some space in center console for storage and decent cupholder. Regular shifter has larger range of movement and blocks more space. That's the story I heard from a salesman, anyway.

    Next thing you know they'll move the shifter to the steering column-50s style. Mercedes has already done this and they practically invented the console shift for autoboxes.

    Just shoot me now. :(

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,147
    I've been gone for a while - new format and badges? Really. The one cool thing is the search has gotten better - @graphicguy- in another forum Sept2013 - something's never change
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