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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,006

    Well, entry level is entry level. That definition is pretty clear cut. Sedan is pretty clear cut as well. The only thing that is questionable is the "performance" part. But it appears the A3 will perform just as well if not better than the A4. I think that was the hang up with the TSX being included in that it didn't really fit the "performance" model in a lot of people's minds. I had no problem with it being included because there are a lot of A4 w/ front wheel drive running around out west and down south that are very close on paper to a TSX. I know most people think of the Quattro when they talk Audi ELLPS but that's a choice of their own.

    Doesn't really matter all that much to me. But technically, a lot of the cars that have been traditionally discussed here are no the the performance entry from that particular brand anymore. It's just so complicated isn't it.

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,261

    @dash5 said: The new TLX: Definitely on my short list.

    Thanks, Dash. By appearance alone it's at the top of my next car shopping list.

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 5,654

    @graphicguy said: Thanks, Dash. By appearance alone it's at the top of my next car shopping list.

    That is a handsome car - is it just me, or do I detect some semblance to the ILX around the C-pillar and trunk area in the side profile?

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  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,593

    Wish they would have (drastically) changed the grill.

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,632

    Nice

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (daughter stole that one), and 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again)

  • dash5dash5 Posts: 418

    I like the grill now. Interesting that there is no shifter. Overall though looks great and I'm anxious to see how they price it.

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,261

    @Michaell@Edmunds said: That is a handsome car - is it just me, or do I detect some semblance to the ILX around the C-pillar and trunk area in the side profile?

    Michaeall...I see that same tail light treatment in the ILX, the RLX, and how the TLX. At first, I wasn't sure I liked the LED headlights, as Acura is using them as a design cue. They're starting to grow on me, though. Looks like the tailights are the LCD "lite pipe" variety replacing my LED tail lights. That interior is gorgeous.

    Saw some other specs....

    0-60 around 5 secs for the TLX SH AWD (about 1/2 sec quicker than my current TL SH AWD). MPG is 21/31. I get 21 in the city, now. So, not sure that is an upgrade. But, if the numbers are right, I'm getting 28 MPG on the highway. If they can hit 31 MPG with the new trans, that would be great.

    3.5L. 290 HP and about 270 TQ. That HP and displacement is less than my durrent TL (305 HP, 3.7L), but apparently the new 9-speed trans and weight reduction is attributed to the higher performance.

    TLX multi-link suspension replaces my TL's double wishbones. Not sure about that. Will have to drive to see how that affects ride/handling.

    Probably stop by my dealer tonight to see when their roll out is going to be.

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,642

    Having my 320i now since Oct and having over 12K miles on I can say that BMW did it's homework on a entry level Sports sedan. One can get a 320i with the Sports package, (it's really the M sport package) for $1300, a bargin... It can be had with a manual transmission out the door for roughly 5% less then MSRP, if the buyer knows how to haggle with the salesman and over on Bimmerfest, a lot of people know how to haggle. If you add the Premium package to said car, you have a nice ELLPS. Now on power, the 320i only makes 180, but installed the BMS Stage 1 ($395 and installs in 45 minutes) and the power difference between the 320 and 328 disappear. In fact, my 320i is faster then a E90 328i. Overall I'm very happy with this car, as I stated in the past, I don't plan to track the car, so not having a the sport package hasn't been a issue for me. I have been driving it lot between Phoenix and San Diego, Phoenix and Tucson, and I'm simply amazed at the highway MPG best been 36.6 MPG, with cruise set at 80 and A/C on. Is the face of ELLPS changing yes, and I think Acura was the first company to make it change with the TSX.

  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,593

    Regarding the TLX: I like the grill now.

    For me, I still don't dig the shield look, and it's kind of bulbous.....totally subjective, I know.

  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    edited April 16

    tsx Nothing more then a rebaged smaller accord-while a nice car- the new tlx looks great from the side but sorry the grill is still so pronounced it really takes away from the rest of the car like the TL, which by all accounts was a styling nightmare for the brand. & If they are going to make cars without shifters just put a seat in its place, let's make it a 6 seater------ push button drive, reverse, nav button, parking break - seems like they are trying to hard and I guarantee someone will leave this thing in gear at the wrong time.

  • ctlctl Posts: 123
    edited April 17

    I have never owned a TL, but personally, I think the current generation TL (2009 - 2014, especially post 2012) actually looks quite a bit better (exterior wise) than the new TLX in many area (size, stance, and presence). Yes the TLX looks a bit better than TSX, but that's about it...

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,632

    The TL I like was the 2004-2008 vintage. I was behind one today (in my 2000 TL) and enjoyed the view. Also like the interior much better (plus I fit much better).

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (daughter stole that one), and 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again)

  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161

    @stickguy‌ - right on best looking was that generation - bmw and mb lovers like to use product codes- so the UA6-UA7

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,505

    @stickguy said: The TL I like was the 2004-2008 vintage.

    Agreed. The shield/beak front felt repulsive, at least at first. It kind of grew on a little bit, but was never in a beauty contest. TSX actually looked just a tad better in this beak thing than TL. I also liked previous TSX.

    BTW, TSX was a perfect size for me. Similar to older BMWs and Audis. I don't really carry passengers, but I like four doors (actually five). To me back seat size is not as essential, as driving experience, which those shorter wheelbase vehicles provided. Unfortunately, all those names grew to sizes reminding their bigger brothers 10 years ago. I think the whole category really shifted. When you get something like optioned-out 335, A4 or soon coming C-class, they aren't really entry level, they are still "sporty", but not really "sports". Same would be with CTS, TLX, or others.

    Unfortunately, their smaller siblings, which some would now argue as ELLPS, come mostly in FWD setups, which is off for traditionalists. It becomes fact of life. It is true that contemporary FWD is not your mother's FWD - current advances in torque handling made those cars much better to drive. Many have or will have AWD option and better engines, which mitigates some of the issue.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,043

    So this is a paddle shifter?

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  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,647
    edited April 17

    @stickguy said:

    I owned an '05 TL for 6.5 years/85k trouble-free, fun and efficient miles. One of Honda/Acuras best designs imo (along with original Legend Coupe). Clean, elegant, sporty. I was so disheartened by the current design, did not consider it for even a moment. The toned down beak/shield is an improvement, but still wouldn't mind seeing it go the way of the Dodos... The TLX, from appearances, welcome back, Acura!

    I"ve not owned nearly as many cars as I'd like (darn family responsibilities and fiscal conservatism!), but my '88 Integra and '05 TL remain two of my faves.

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,088

    I like the interior of the new TLX, and I wonder if not having a shift lever will be a plus or a minus in attracting customers. At this point, I don't have any experience with "no shifter" so I'll go with being neutral on the subject.

    I am assuming the interior utilizes the upper and lower screen approach -- I run hot and cold on that, too, but probably more cold: I am more in favor of one screen generally speaking, but the TLX's interior does seem to send out most, if not all, of the queues that suggest it is a Premium car interior (an upgrade from my 2012).

  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,341

    Again, no condemnation of your love of Audis. Your experiences have just been different than mine.

    My experiences with Audi have all been positive. Every company can have a bad apple. The real goal should be to buy a vehicle that never gives a company a chance to establish their customer service levels, as you never have to visit them. That's what happened my first 4,100 miles in the perfect 2014 S4, but a day before I'm supposed to pick it up at the body shop, I'm told the dealer is finding the left front side of the vehicle out of alignment spec, enough out of spec that they can't adjust to meet spec.

    The accident was on the right side; this could spell trouble. Not Audi's fault of course, the Lexus driver is at fault. I will say I escaped the ordeal without as little as a bruise; the belt did what it's supposed to do. I'm told the tow truck could have caused the suspension damage.

    All the fluids had to be refilled & recharged (coolant, transmission, transmission coolant, AC system). The driver's seat belt has to be replaced (one-time use with significant impacts). The air box had to be replaced. Might end up being more than 17K when all is said and done; I think they should have totaled it; we'll see.

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 5,654

    @andres3 said:Might end up being more than 17K when all is said and done; I think they should have totaled it; we'll see.

    $17K in damage repairs is still only about 33% of the value of the car; not even close to the threshold used by most insurance carriers to write it off.

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  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,341

    @Michaell@Edmunds said: $17K in damage repairs is still only about 33% of the value of the car; not even close to the threshold used by most insurance carriers to write it off.

    Yes, but when you add in Diminished value of around 15%, Rental Car expenses of about $1,250, and who knows how much extra could be needed before all said and done. And if the vehicle isn't quite right after all that effort; what then?

    Basically looking at near $30K or 60%. Still, too low to total, but my opinion is generally that cars are unfixable from significant accident damage. Maybe this body shop will change my mind; I'm hoping!

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 5,654

    @andres3 said:

    Oh, I'm not saying you don't have a case - we've had the diminished value discussion already and I think your car, if any, should qualify for it.

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  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,088

    Please keep us posted on the body shop's progress.

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,642

    @andres3 said:Yes, but when you add in Diminished value of around 15%, Rental Car expenses of about $1,250, and who knows how much extra could be needed before all said and done. And if the vehicle isn't quite right after all that effort; what then?

    Basically looking at near $30K or 60%. Still, too low to total, but my opinion is generally that cars are unfixable from significant accident damage. Maybe this body shop will change my mind; I'm hoping!

    I have been in 5 accidents, 4 in cars (none my fault), one accident, I had to make a panic stop on I-8 west bound from La Mesa to Mission Valley, just picked up our truck from the dealership, truck was 6 months old, had 6K miles on, and a lady slammed into me at 65 mph, lucky for me, the truck was taller then her car, her insurance company was going to fix the truck, it needed a new frame, cost of said frame, $7900, then another $13K to R&R frame. My EX and I fought the insurance company to just total the truck, since the job was going to take roughly 3.5 months to complete.... So after 5 months (it took the dealership 2 months to complete the job) but each time I would take the truck out for a test drive I would find something wrong with the truck, after 5 months, of nit picking her insurance wrote a check for the truck. Andres3 be very picky and DO NOT sign a release unless you are 100% happy with the car, after a while, the adjuster might just say, lets forget this and write you a check... Doesn't your S4 have an aluminum frame?

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,043

    The problem isn't so much that the cars can't be fixed---they certainly can be made to look as good as new---, but that the insurance companies don't want to be trapped into, or locked into, supplemental repairs on a complex luxury car, weeks or months after the initial repair. So I think they assess the damage not only as to estimated repairs, but the type of car and the type of damage. You know, floods, fires, etc, give the insurance company pause.

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  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,341

    @flightnurse said: ..... So after 5 months (it took the dealership 2 months to complete the job) but each time I would take the truck out for a test drive I would find something wrong with the truck, after 5 months, of nit picking her insurance wrote a check for the truck. Andres3 be very picky and DO NOT sign a release unless you are 100% happy with the car, after a while, the adjuster might just say, lets forget this and write you a check... Doesn't your S4 have an aluminum frame?

    The S4 is a combination of aluminum, ultra high strength steel, and steel components. It appears the aluminum sub-frame of the suspension got knocked out of place affecting the left side though the impact was on the right. They said they were able to adjust it the 2nd day at the dealership to meet specs. I think unlike Toyota (in general), an Audi authorized body shop doesn't try to mess around and do things "half-way." There's only 3 body shops that qualify for "Audi Certified" in all of San Diego County. A good example is that on the first day at the dealership, they didn't try to magically adjust parts out of spec to meet spec. They admitted it didn't meet spec and worked on the car longer to get it right. In a way; this is a good thing; although my rental will now be around $1,400 due to the extended delays. I think they know the typical Audi owner is meticulous with attention to detail. After all, they didn't settle for a VW. :)

    The body shop will get the car back first thing Monday morning, do a test drive by driving the vehicle back to the shop (what happens if they wreck on the way back?) After that, he said they had a good 1.5 days of work finishing up the buffing, polishing, and detailing on the panels that were repainted (a majority of panels by the way due to blending).

    I hope I don't face delays like you did, because the more that is eaten up by rental costs out of the guy's $10K insurance limit, the harder it will be for me to collect decent diminished value.

    When I told Geico to put what they told me over the phone in writing (that they'd defer to me to be made whole first from the 10K, then come in afterwards), they balked. They said let's wait and see what Mercury agrees to pay for DV and other things first, then we'll talk. I sent a demand letter to Mercury for 15% of the total purchase price $55K (including fees/taxes) = $8,250 for DV alone. I added a caveat that this was to settle fast and quickly without me having to pay professional appraisers and incur additional costs. I told them if they force me to go further, I will no longer negotiate the highest of my consultants estimates, whereas right now I might negotiate down a bit to just get it over with.

    If there are ongoing issues with the car, I think now is the time to state for the record I thought the car should of been totaled from the beginning. At least then I can say "I told you so," and your adjuster was off by somewhere near 25% (incompetent or grossly negligent estimate).

  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,341

    @Michaell@Edmunds said: $17K in damage repairs is still only about 33% of the value of the car; not even close to the threshold used by most insurance carriers to write it off.

    Finally got the first supplemental estimate: Just north of $20K!!!!

    Still, well below totaling even with 15% DV and $1,405 rental costs.

    However, I find being off (first estimate was $15.5K) by so much, makes me think someone wasn't being honest with themselves early on. I know supplements are common, but one of nearly 25% extra? 28 day time estimate is way off too. Looks like it'll be 1 month and 4 days if they let me pick up next Tuesday.

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,662

    @andres3

    Thanks for keeping us updated. Sorry you have to go through this whole ordeal.

    Powered By Honda2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD

  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,341

    So I got in a fight with my insurance company; I believe they've turned on me and they have 3 strikes in my book now. They found out the impacted tire wouldn't balance on the wheel and had to be replaced. They tried to get away with only replacing 1 tire saying the car only had 4,200 miles. I pointed out to Geico that they were deviating from the Owner's manual and Audi specifications that recommend replacing all 4 tires, but under no circumstances should tires be replaced in less than pairs on the front and/or rear axle. They must be within 2 MM to meet spec from front to rear. After sending a semi-nasty letter to Gieco, they realized the error of their ways, and said they'd pay for 80% of 2 tires, but 20% betterment charge to me (they are within the 2 mm spec.

    20% betterment when staggered tires (2/32nd's difference) will result in reduced or at least altered performance? NO THANK YOU. Also, I won't get any betterment because I'm not going to double my maintenance frequency and hassle changing 2 tires at a time, especially when the manual says running different size tires (circumference) will result in reduced handling.

  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,006

    If I were your insurance company I would have the tire shop shave a tire to match up with your present tires and tell you you're good to go. IMO asking for 4 new tires where only one is damaged when the car has only 4200 miles is a reach. Why would you have to double your maint. frequency if the tires are within the 2mm spec. anyway?

  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161

    @andres3‌ we going to see picks of this pig? Would love to see the damage myself ? Speed kills people stay safe.:

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