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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,634

    Possibly that impression of being a leaser dream comes from the automotive press, which has been sort of hammering the point:

    "With a $33,475 base price, the 320i will allow BMW to advertise more affordable base-model lease deals, potentially with comparable pricing to second-tier competitors--Motor Trend

    "BMW's new base 320i brings 3 Series ownership within reach of a lot more people than ever before" -- LeaseBusters

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  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,605

    The interesting thing is people who know all about BMW leases can lease a mid level 328i for around $300/m. In fact, on Bimmerfest one of the Sponsor's which is a BMW Dealer has a great lease on a 528i for $465/m. A friend just did a Euro Delivery on his M235i, ZERO down, and payments of $502/m with tax, MSRP was $49K selling price was $45K.. BTW, yes these leases had 7 MSD's.. Which is the smart way to go.. I'm told Audi doesn't do MSD's which is ashamed it's a win win both both Audi and customer.

    Now as I pointed out, Audi now has the A3, which will lease about the same.. Smaller car then a 320i...

  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,057

    Audi has an MSD program.

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  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,769

    @flightnurse said: The interesting thing is people who know all about BMW leases can lease a mid level 328i for around $300/m. In fact, on Bimmerfest one of the Sponsor's which is a BMW Dealer has a great lease on a 528i for $465/m. A friend just did a Euro Delivery on his M235i, ZERO down, and payments of $502/m with tax, MSRP was $49K selling price was $45K.. BTW, yes these leases had 7 MSD's.. Which is the smart way to go.. I'm told Audi doesn't do MSD's which is ashamed it's a win win both both Audi and customer.

    Now as I pointed out, Audi now has the A3, which will lease about the same.. Smaller car then a 320i...

    Except that the people BMW is targeting with a $319 lease deal on a 320i aren't the type that have the money to do multiple MSD's - they are going to have a hard time coming up with the $3800 needed to drive it away.

    The A3 and the CLS are not targeted against the 320 in their base form - the real competition will be here next year as the next 1 series.

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,605

    @robr2 said: Except that the people BMW is targeting with a $319 lease deal on a 320i aren't the type that have the money to do multiple MSD's - they are going to have a hard time coming up with the $3800 needed to drive it away.The A3 and the CLS are not targeted against the 320 in their base form - the real competition will be here next year as the next 1 series.

    This is true, but people just need to dig a little and save a bunch.

    So really there is no direct competitor for the 320i. I was looking at base price.

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,486
    edited May 18

    @sweendogy said: We get the320 is a 3 series, I remember Infiniti had a g25 at one point- that didn't last for long.

    It didn't stick because it had a pathetic engine and price and not enough price difference with G35/G37. From reports I read 320 engine is not bad at all and the pricing difference makes better sense.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,057

    I've leased both a BMW and Infiniti with payments in the $300s, and MSDs.

    ELLPS aren't just leased by strivers, seeking to stretch their budget. Plenty of car enthusiasts, just looking for good value for their money.

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  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,300

    well, the 320 and 328 have the same engine. One is just in a higher state of tune. So like having a few less standard features, it really is the same car. Heck, 1/2 the people that get a 328 probably would never be able to tell if they got a 320i motor by mistake!

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,634

    60 less HP though. I bet you'd notice :)

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,057

    Yeah.. 180 vs. 240

    But, when the E46 came in 325 or 330, the horsepower difference was 184 vs. 225. You could definitely tell the difference, but the 184 HP in the 325i certainly seemed adequate. I'm not a giant fan of the horsepower wars...

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  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,486

    It's probably because the horsepower difference came mostly from better high end torque and longer rev range. This means Joe Sixpack will not see as much difference in his driving to a grocery store.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,769
    edited May 19

    BMW Hecho in Mexico??

    BMW to announce its first Mexican car plant in July: report

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,486

    Just saw an A3 commercial. Looks like 1.8 liter is back. But, why?

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,300

    not the same 1.8l. all new motor. Same engine as in my son's Jetta, and it is a really nice unit.

    why? So they can keep the base price down, of course. and frankly, that is plenty of motor for that car.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 3,930

    @kyfdx said: Yeah.. 180 vs. 240

    But, when the E46 came in 325 or 330, the horsepower difference was 184 vs. 225. You could definitely tell the difference, but the 184 HP in the 325i certainly seemed adequate. I'm not a giant fan of the horsepower wars...

    I would agree. I'd love to see BMW come out with a 220i. I think 180hp would be adequate in that car.

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,634

    True. You reach a point where the HP can not be legally applied anymore. You'd have to branch out into track venues to enjoy the car. 180HP is more than adequate, but it does depend on the weight of the car of course. 180HP in a MINI is not the same as 180HP in a Lincoln Town Car.

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  • rbirns1rbirns1 Posts: 219

    @sweendogy said: "Mind showing where BMW has called the 320 a "leaser dream"? I highly doubt they ever called it that..." Bmw would never call it that, true they want you to think that you are getting a great lux car - 269 a month with 3k down for 36m/30k miles. Seems sweet until you see the lack of technology, power, lux vs a honda accord.

    What lack of technology? Other than the detuned engine, what is missing from the 320?

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 3,930

    @rbirns1 said: What lack of technology? Other than the detuned engine, what is missing from the 320?

    I don't think that it's missing so much as it's optional. A base 320i has very few standard features when compared to a top of the line Accord. To get them equipped similarly, the 3-series will end up priced in the upper 30's.

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  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,605

    @dino001 said: Just saw an A3 commercial. Looks like 1.8 liter is back. But, why?

    The new 1.8l turbo is an all new unit and the reviews are very positive. On the VW side, it will replace the 2.5l 5 cycle they have been using. Better MPG and better power.

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,605

    @rbirns1 said: What lack of technology? Other than the detuned engine, what is missing from the 320?

    Power seats are standard on the 328i (wasn't before), folding mirrors are also standard. The premium package is really the best package to get on the 3 series, but in the 320i leather is a stand alone option, leather is part of the premium package which make sense to add for only $1300.

  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,388

    @flightnurse said: Power seats are standard on the 328i (wasn't before), folding mirrors are also standard.

    I don't like that; I prefer manual seats. That said, bravo to BMWNA for offering a moonroof delete option on the M235i...

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,605

    @roadburner said:I don't like that; I prefer manual seats. That said, bravo to BMWNA for offering a moonroof delete option on the M235i...

    This is why BMW has a la carte ordering system.. Sunroof is standard on the M235i, I too like that you can have it deleted if you want it.

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,113

    @flightnurse said: Power seats are standard on the 328i (wasn't before), folding mirrors are also standard. The premium package is really the best package to get on the 3 series, but in the 320i leather is a stand alone option, leather is part of the premium package which make sense to add for only $1300.

    My point on technology was pretty clear a loaded accord with more hp and leather and nav kills a comp 320 in every aspect of tech as equipped- the Accord sport has power driver seat standard for 23msrp. Bmw no such luck- everything is an add on- I'm sure it's a bmw at heart but its expensive for a car with little standard. I wonder if this car is being crossed shopped vs bmw mini

  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,388

    Depends on the buyer; the presence or lack of power seats, leather, and nav have no influence on my choice. Once I'm spending over $30K RWD and three pedals are my minimum requirements. That said, having extensively driven several iterations of the F30 I have to say that it leaves me cold; I much prefer my Club Sport and '02, not to mention my Mazdaspeed 3- and this comes from someone who has owned BMWs since 1983...

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,605

    @sweendogy said: My point on technology was pretty clear a loaded accord with more hp and leather and nav kills a comp 320 in every aspect of tech as equipped- the Accord sport has power driver seat standard for 23msrp. Bmw no such luck- everything is an add on- I'm sure it's a bmw at heart but its expensive for a car with little standard. I wonder if this car is being crossed shopped vs bmw mini

    If you sole argument is technology then you should have bought a Q50 and not your S4... If someone wants a strip down Sports Sedan, which BTW, BMW is selling many 320i with just the Sports Package and 6 spd manual that is the way to go. Some people want a car just like it, others will load up the 320i with all options. One thing I give BMW over many other manufactures is, you can build your car how you want it.

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,113

    @flightnurse - my whole argument was Price - 35k to get a car equipped as you stated- no sunroof - base stereo, no power seats or sunroof-select colors and no leather- missing 30 other items and same power as an 18k mainstream cruiser. When you say they are selling many? Where ?

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,605

    @sweendogy said: flightnurse - my whole argument was Price - 35k to get a car equipped as you stated- no sunroof - base stereo, no power seats or sunroof-select colors and no leather- missing 30 other items and same power as an 18k mainstream cruiser. When you say they are selling many? Where ?

    In your world there are people who don't want all that but want a Sports Sedan, so they order a 320i with Sport Package, with 6 sod man and they are happy. Then there are people who take a 335i and load it up to 63K.... There isn't a right or wrong answer here. it's all about personal preference. I remember you stated you would never buy a ELPS without a manual transmission, but look you have a automatic.

    Dealers are ordering 320i's with Premium Package and leather, that seems to be the bulk of what is on lots. This isn't the lease that is all over the net, but someone who understand leases can get this 320i for roughly $250/m on a lease with very little out of pocket usually tax and fee's.

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,226
    edited May 23

    I agree $35k is alot of money... but, and maybe I'm forgetting something here, I believe the 320 is the cheapest RWD sport sedan on the market, regardless of luxury status.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,605

    @qbrozen said: I agree $35k is alot of money... but, and maybe I'm forgetting something here, I believe the 320 is the cheapest RWD sport sedan on the market, regardless of luxury status.

    For the price point it's the entry level Sport Sedan that can he had with a manual transmission and sport package.

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,113

    RWD sure - but you could get a more powerful german - that's an all around better sports car?

    And the double jeopardy answer alex- what is the vw golf R?

    car has more of everything in a nice German shell- except for the nice bmw "free maintence" and let's not forget about the lease deals and nice dealerships- the vw has everything a value oriented performance person would want in a 4 door.

    And motor trends take -...(and to be fair they did talk it up a bit going into this ending blurb)-

    "A $35,000 3 Series sedan sounds like a bargain until you learn what's not included. Extra-cost options on a sport package-equipped $34,775 320i include a rear-view camera, navigation system, real leather, enhanced Bluetooth, HID headlights, a moonroof, hands-free keyless entry, and an auto-dimming rearview mirror. Though the sport seats have two-way adjustable side bolsters, fully power-operated front seats are extra. Heated seats cost more, too, unless you consider how hot the black leatherette gets after the car sits in the sun for a few hours. Then there's the aforementioned $550 for a selection of metallic colors. We don't expect any luxury automaker to include all of the above options as standard equipment, but new-to-BMW customers intrigued by the 320i model but familiar with more value-oriented luxury brands may be taken aback by the fact that none of the above is standard."

    Oops I did it again- @qbrozen@flightnurse @flight_doc

    You can read the whole article here -

    Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1307_2013_bmw_320i_first_look/#ixzz32agaDJKa

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