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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    edited January 2011
    I don't think there's anything wrong with your taste, requirements, etc. It's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I do doubt your reliability claims have any basis in fact, but hey, whatever...

    Here's what I don't understand. I don't like pickup trucks, so I don't bother visiting any truck forums here. Never have. Why would I? Just to tell people I don't like trucks? You don't like cars that are small, ugly, and/or European.

    OK, thanks for visiting.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,011
    edited January 2011
    Here's what I don't understand. I don't like pickup trucks, so I don't bother visiting any truck forums here. Never have. Why would I? Just to tell people I don't like trucks?

    I wrote this in another forum with respect to BMWs, but I think it addresses the situation here as well:

    I have a Jeep TJ and I never post snotty comments on the Hummer or Land Rover boards. My TJ does what I want it to do and I don't need to justify my choice. Ditto for my Mazdaspeed3. I leave the guys in the GTI, MCS, Si, and WRX boards to their own devices. Again, why bother them? And as for my X3 and 3er, I feel no compulsion whatsoever to troll the Audi, Infiniti, Lexus, or MB boards. What's the point? The same goes for my Speed Triple. However, there always seems to be a few non-BMW owners who just have to yell "Mine's bigger!" in the Bimmer topics.

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,051
    i'm an owner of a new body g35x (not 37) and at the time they announced the g25 i was excited but since reading the stat lines on the car -mpg, performance, HP, and lack of manual it kind of confuses me a bit- I mean they should of put a turbo 4 in the car with stick 250 hp for that price -- or give it a v4/v6 that gets 30 mpg, for me this is a good looking car-- it turns and breaks well- the base 3 series has more hp and if you can find a base one with a 6speed it sounds like a better deal-- plus with the manual your looking at more power and more fun while in the same price range.

    i also think the selective editing gets old certainly when good points are being made- like why is the TSX in this category again but the Max is not?? same price range and fwd only difference is Acura vs Nissan nameplate.
  • Well, most of the time, we go on manufacturer specification. They call it a midsize sedan? OK, we do too. They call it a large sedan? We do too.

    I think you might find the conversation in our mainstream large sedans discussion interesting, as the interior measurements of the Maxima are smaller than the Altima. Would love your perspective there.

    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    edited January 2011
    Personally, I think the G25 is being targeted at IS250 buyers - namely, young upwardly mobile females looking to enter the "luxury" market. These buyers don't care about HP or manual transmissions. They're looking for styling and amenities.

    The TSX belongs here because, with the 6MT at least, it is arguably one of the sportiest, most fun-to-drive cars in this category. I actually think it epitomizes the ELLPS segment right now. If you've never driven it, you just cannot imagine how the numbers don't tell the story of how the sum is greater than the parts. I have driven very few cars where every part is in harmony with every other part. The engine, transmission, steering, switchgear, green house - it's just a joy to spend time with. It's not without faults, of course, but they disappear once you're rolling. It's like a symphony - seriously. I'll always remember mine as one of my favorites.
  • i am concerned with the G37 tranny issue, and from what I have been reading the G25 is not having these problems., that's why I was considering the 25. Also, my other option is a CPO G35X, since they don't have the 7 speed tranny.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,092
    belongs here despite the fact that it is FWD (or as many call it, Wrong Wheel Drive). I thought the total package was much better overall than the MINI Cooper S (6MT) I test drove before it. I love how the suspension is tuned. I'm a die hard manual transmission guy & actually really like the way our TSX's automatic performs. Upshifts are smooth & crisp. Downshifts come when you want them too. Driving in M mode, the transmission WILL NOT upshift at the redline unless you select the next gear. It is also the most ENTRY LEVEL of the ELLPS. You can seriously own a TSX Tech for under $30K. Nobody else in this segment can touch that price.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    ... the Saab 9-5? Is that considered a ELLPS?

    Personally, I'm not a big fan of them, but the upcoming 9-5 SportCombi is actually a decent-looking wagon.

    image

    IMO it's better-looking than the TSX wagon.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,092
    one of those bad boys loaded up is well over $50K. That is NOT entry level by any sense of this board.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    What exactly is the price ceiling then?

    Consider:

    A BMW 335i xDrive with options exceeds $55K.
    An Audi A4 can exceed $51K.
    A C-class (non-AMG) can also exceed $51K.

    Granted, the base price starts higher than the others (at $38,525, according to their website) but it's relatively well-equipped.
  • To me, the price ceiling would be $45K for a car equipped with typical options and navigation system for a luxury car. You know, leather, moonroof, xenon, heated seats, climate control, upgraded audio, auto-dimming mirrors, power seat and memory, those kind of things. So most Japanese ones qualify even if it's G37 or IS350, but not the German ones because they are too expensive. I would consider 9-5 to be in this segment too.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,092
    Also isn't the entry level car in the Saab lineup, that would be the 9-3. I'll have to check, but I think the 9-5 competes with the 5 series & E class.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    +1

    9-5 is too big and not entry-level.
  • Agree. Didn't know that it's almost as long as a Caravan. (Slight exaggeration, but it's definitely way bigger than any car in this category)
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,051
    carguy and lawman.. the TSX i think its a great car for the money but luxury and performance are key factors to consider-- this is the same car sold overseas as the accord - they put leather and chrome in the car here and call it an acura-- msrp ranges from 30k to 39k (yes for a tsx with nav and a V6) and with deals i'm sure you can get a 6speed manual for around 28k which is a great price for a car like this. I have not driven the new tsx but the last generation with the best manual on the planet was a joy - but performance in the current model do not match prev generations as this car has become a little bloated. The base sonada comes with 200 hp and you can get a 275hp turbo 4 for 25k that gets 33mpg highway- you would love to see acura "advance" a bit before the whole line becomes saab or volvo.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    couldn't agree with you more about the TSX and Acura as a whole!

    I do have to say that of the current Acura line-up, the TSX is the only vehicle I could see getting and the only one that I could tolerate the shield grill on. Let's hope Acura gets rid of that styling choice in the next generations of their vehicles!
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,206
    edited January 2011
    . . .but the last generation with the best manual on the planet was a joy. . .

    Still is for me -- the TSX manual is really fine. If the car put the power down via the rear wheels and had a 2 or 2.5 litre diesel I'd keep it until they put me in a home.

    As it is, I still haven't seen anything I like enough better to go for it. A Jetta or Golf TDI are possibilities, but I really enjoy the stone solid reliability of a Honda product.

    The transmission clicks nicely into each gear and is certainly the best one I've used since my MGB. Even though the B's tansmission lacked a synchronized first gear, the linkage had absolutely zero play in it and sat right on top of the transmission -- good times. The two Miatas and the 240Z I drove many miles had lots of good features, but the transmissions weren't the equal of the TSX or the B.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,051
    the honda product reliability cant argue with that- and good to hear they didnt fuss with the tranny. Rare manual transmission driver, good job
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,092
    While the TSX V6 with Tech does go into the far reaches of the upper $30K range, they don't sell well & Acura puts big incentives on them to sell. The majority of TSXs out there are 4cyl.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,051
    edited January 2011
    i'm sure thats the case with the 6 --. Acura should invest some money in the line- drop the 6 , clean up the grill, make a coupe?, and throw another 50 plus HP (or more) into a turbo 4, how about a 6speed auto. while keeping weight down..right now its a 4cyl pulling 3500 lbs with just 200hp and 170lbs.. might be nice to sit in but its not a performer in its current form (certainly if ordered with an 5 speed auto). sorry edmunds this current car does not meet ELLPS no matter what acura says on its press releases.
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