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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,673

    Real HP figures for BMW's F80 M3.

    Real eye opener

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,396

    Well, Well...BMW isn't giving up the HP War so easily! Nice!

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,452

    FN.....took my sister out tonight to test drive a 328. For grins, we asked to test drive a 320i. Pretty damn nice drive for negotiated price of mid $30s.
    A little lite on content, but a fun drive.

    Drove a CLA. No contest. BMW trumps it.

    Waiting for the new TLX next month for her to test drive.

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,673

    @circlew said: Well, Well...BMW isn't giving up the HP War so easily! Nice! Not bad for a 3L 6 cyl...

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,673

    @graphicguy said: FN.....took my sister out tonight to test drive a 328. For grins, we asked to test drive a 320i. Pretty damn nice drive for negotiated price of mid $30s.
    A little lite on content, but a fun drive.

    Drove a CLA. No contest. BMW trumps it.

    Waiting for the new TLX next month for her to test drive.

    If you add premium and leather then you have a nice car. They can he had for mid 30s out the door.

  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,306

    Big power, numb handling, boatloads of electronics, BMW badge -- what's not to like?

  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 30,498

    Not sure I'd agree about an M3 having numb handling... (I'd like to find out, though.. lol)

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  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,185

    I Will say the price as stated above on the new TLX is pretty aggressive - I haven't seen that standard features but one would guess it would be similar equipped to a midrange accord or better, which is better equipped then a 320 bmw and priced less. I really hope they fixed the look vs the TL- I saw a newer TL today and was amazed they waited so long to fix it.

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,891

    I have absolutely no use for nor do I have any business owning an ///M3, but oh do I want one soooo bad! I'd take an I6 powered E46 or one of the recent V8s.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 15,427

    that M3 doesn't really do anything for me. Too over the top and unpractical. I could more than live with the model with 1/2 the HP, street usable tires, etc.

    2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4i Limited Tech (mine), 2013 Acura RDX (wife's) and 2007 Volvo S40 (daughters college car)

  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    edited July 17

    You really should test drive the actual C class, or the A4. Those three have always been the classic three "European Sedans" to test drive. The CLA is a front wheel drive piece of fodder aimed at yuppies who don't know better and just want a luxury car to putter around town in. Yes, the A4 also is normally front wheel drive, but they have spent decades perfecting AWD in their cars. An A4 with AWD is a very good car to drive.

    http://www.guideautoweb.com/en/specifications/compare/12087,7634/ A little sobering, actually. The 320i has such a weak engine given the price you pay. BMW should just stop selling it and make the 328i the entry level model. (the 0-60 for the Mustang? not listed, but it's 5.7 seconds)

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,452

    @flightnurse said: If you add premium and leather then you have a nice car. They can he had for mid 30s out the door.

    Yeah....my sister is looking to load one up, I think somewhere in that low $40s range. Out the door around $37K, maybe?

    Pickins are getting slim, given the '15s are right around the corner. '14 you get what you get. She wants mineral white with tan leather, plus nag, winter pack, etc. '14 she gets $1K incentive. '15 she has to order, but can get exactly what she wants....no $1K incentive.

    Really surprised by the suspension on the CLA......it felt closer to a Cobalt than it did to a Mercedes.....no exaggeration.

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 7,276
    edited July 17

    @graphicguy said: '14 you get what you get. She wants mineral white with tan leather, plus nag, winter pack, etc.

    Isn't that standard if she's in the passenger seat?

    Sorry, couldn't resist. I'm sure your sister is a perfectly nice person. Just too easy to not take the shot...

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  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,673

    @graphicguy said: Yeah....my sister is looking to load one up, I think somewhere in that low $40s range. Out the door around $37K, maybe?

    Pickins are getting slim, given the '15s are right around the corner

    If the dealer really wants to make a sell, they will do a dealer trade, take MSRP - 7% this is a good start on any 3 series, then subtract the 1K from that. Now since you are previous BMW owner they might give her another 1K off. Is she buying or leasing? Do you know about MSD's?

  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,185

    Is the 320 really considered a bmw or is it some sort of a mini limo, without leather? - tell yr sis to look at the a3 - get way more standard and a better looking rig-

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 15,427

    how the heck fast do you people need to go? From reading some of these comments I was expecting something akin to my 1985 Colt (68 HP baby! ). But the first 2 links said 6.7 and 7.1 (x drive) with the AT. I guess if that seems dangerous you can always spend a little more for the 328, or a chip.

    2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4i Limited Tech (mine), 2013 Acura RDX (wife's) and 2007 Volvo S40 (daughters college car)

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,673

    @stickguy said: how the heck fast do you people need to go? From reading some of these comments I was expecting something akin to my 1985 Colt (68 HP baby! ). But the first 2 links said 6.7 and 7.1 (x drive) with the AT. I guess if that seems dangerous you can always spend a little more for the 328, or a chip.

    Stick, the 320i goes 0-60 in 6.7 sec, faster then a Hyundai Sonata Turbo or Kia Optima Turbo that have 274hp. Stops from 60-0 in 106 feet. Overall I'm happy with the car, and extra boost added has given what the 320i needed. Now for 2015, the 320i will get a power boost, officially BMW has not stated what is it, but talk is between 200-210hp, the 328i is also getting a power boost too.

    Now the new M3/4 are nice cars, but are they practical? Some people will say yes and some will say no. But BMW wont have a problem selling every single one. But then again, some people are happy at buying a used car while others don't. The 320 has sold very well for BMW and I'm sure it will continue to do so.

  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 30,498

    Our '03 325i was pretty loaded up.. MSRP around $38K... 184 HP and 0-60 in about 7.1 seconds... pretty quick..

    If it's 11 years later, and you can get the same performance from a 320i for the same price? Sounds good to me.... I have a car with 327 HP.. can't say it's any more fun than that '03 325i.

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  • justg0justg0 Posts: 70

    @sweendogy said: Is the 320 really considered a bmw or is it some sort of a mini limo, without leather? - tell yr sis to look at the a3 - get way more standard and a better looking rig-

    I seriously considered a3 before going for 320i. I didn't feel a3 to be any more faster (though numbers say it supposedly is) even though I think its 220hp. Also a3 lease was lot more expensive, in the range of 328i or more. But the biggest issue for me was I could not get used to the audi awd system. Never was able to take the exit like I wanted to, had to slow down lot more than I was used to a rwd bmw. But still check it out. You may like it.

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,452

    Sister is a buyer. She didn't inherit the same car gene as I did. She has had her Jag for over 12 years. So, MSDs don't enter into it.

    Her "wants" are a bit different than a "price" buyer......mineral white, tan leather, nav, xDrive. All that makes a loaded up 320i. And, price wise, you creep into 328i territory. But, she's not a speed demon. I think her salesperson hit it on the head when he said the 320i is the car that BMW wants to sell to hook people on the brand, regardless of what they are coming from. Really good suspension and toss able, as it's much lighter than my previous 335i coupe.

    Audi is off the table based on hearing of my experience.

    C class was underwhelming....still a $45K car with some equipment added on, that felt ponderous compared to the 320i.

    CLA......really good looking car.....but in reality that is the ONLY thing it has going for it.

    She was shocked that the Jag (XF?) she looked at had a sticker of close to $60K. Not sure what she paid for her "S" type a dozen years ago, but I didn't think it would have been that big of a jump. So, Jag is off the table.

    We'll see how this turns out.

  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,702

    @graphicguy said:

    She was shocked that the Jag (XF?) she looked at had a sticker of close to $60K. Not sure what she paid for her "S" type a dozen years ago, but I didn't think it would have been that big of a jump. So, Jag is off the table.

    Yeah, my '13 XF stickered for ~$65k, but I paid significantly less. Big incentives on '13 XF ($6500, $1975 on '14 in my zip code), if she can find one and would buy last year's model new... Still, with the 6 cylinder, I'd imagine price would still be in very high $40s, low $50s for a '13. But, ya never know...

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,101

    We live in a little town about 20 miles north of the CBD of Cincinnati. The routes to get from home to the CBD (approximately where my wife and I work), include I-71, looping around from north to south by sort of going east on I-275 and heading down the back road (or so it seems) of Wooster Pike and SR 50.

    OK, with that much info at hand, I must say it is virtually impossible to use more than a relatively small fraction of the potential of an S4 or SQ5. I had, for about 5 seconds, thought it would be cool to change out the supercharger pulley and engine management software for more torque and horsepower.

    But to what end?

    There are so few opportunities where I can push my S4 -- I, so far, literally overtake every other car on any of the above mentioned hi-ways and roads. The "joy" of punching it on a freeway entrance ramp is something I would love to do -- unfortunately the acceleration is so quick (sub 50-seconds to 100kph) I overtake everything and end up hitting the brakes hard.

    I wouldn't give up the feeling of deep wells of power and torque that these S cars offer -- but I must say, it has become virtually impossible to "play with" the power offered in a sane and unselfish manner.

    Tuning the Auidi S's or the "35" BMW engines would certainly boost their power, torque and therefore increase their "accelerative" force and overall thrust -- but I have now reached the point that I see no merit in chipping, changing out the exhaust system, etc, since I can't use (and enjoy) the factory force available.

    I assume the same frustrations are "enjoyed" by certain Cadillac, Mercede, Volvo, Porsche and other "sported up" model owners -- at least if you live in just about any medium to large US city.

    You finally get a modern "hot rod" and you literally can only tap into a fraction of its capabilities.

    Kind of a drag.

  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,767
    edited July 19

    My two favorite cars in the garage are the fastest(MS3) and the slowest(Club Sport). And I have absolutely no problem pushing either to the edge of their respective performance envelopes- that's what HPDEs are for!

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,101

    I have been to no less than 8 HPDEs and you are correct roadburner, you can push the cars (however the HPDEs I have attended supplied the cars for us, we weren't allowed to use our own). However, I was thinking more of the "everyday" that I "remember" from past years.

    I'm not suggesting I want to get on a crowded (and ours almost always are) interstate and floor it, consequences be damned. My "wistful" intents are more to find a relatively deserted stretch where I can "punch it" with the only concern being getting a speeding ticket, not endangering the clog of cars (and their drivers and passengers, of course).

    Of our many trips to Germany, some of my fondest memories have to do with taking my BMW, Mercedes or Audi rental on the autobahn and driving from Berlin to Munich where there are some fairly long stretches of the autobahn that have no speed limit.

    During those driving moments I had no sense of danger or that our collective high speeds were reckless. Here, as the freeways are ever more crowded and people pass on the right or sit in the far left lane and cruise along below the posted speed limit, driving has become much more like work -- and increasingly risky work at that.

    We'll go to an HPDE perhaps once or twice every five years -- always love them, but I guess I'm looking for an American Autobahn -- not gonna happen in my lifetime.

    Next up our cars are going to (already are) provide ever more driver aids that take the wheel, accelerator and brake away from us.

    Driving and our car culture are changing -- and I am, usually, in favor of the change. This time, however, what I am longing for is my memory restricted return to having fun behind the wheel as we did not that many years ago.

    :@

    It's the weekend, it's summer -- I'm going to go out and find a curvy "back road" (whatever that means anymore) and carve it up.

    I'll get over it in a minute.

    There, I'm over it.

    B)

  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,767
    edited July 19

    Driving at high speeds in virtually a straight line gets boring after a while. Fortunately my job involves a lot of driving and I often choose to take a nearly deserted rural two lane as opposed to a dull interstate slog, which allows me to enjoy the handling prowess of whichever car I'm driving. The Club Sport requires a bit of finesse and the ability to conserve momentum. You have to make sure it is always in the right gear at the right time(fortunately the pedal placement is ideal for heel/toe downshifts). In contrast, the MS3-fitted with Koni FSDs and Michelin PSS tires-simply bludgeons the road to death; just leave it in third gear, turn in really late with a bit of trailing brake, and nail the throttle once you see daylight(or, as I've said before, visualize obedience training a bipolar pit bull that is mainlining crystal meth).

    Think of it this way: if the Club Sport is a Steyr SSG 69, the MS3 is a Colt AR-15 with an extended capacity magazine.

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,452

    Loved the power of both the 335i and the S4. Seems Audi has issues with some of the cars that use recent iterations of their Quattro system, as I've seen mention in some of the trade rags about the same "grinding" issues I experienced.

    There wasn't much on the road that could beat you in stop light wars, though. It would have to be a very recent muscle car, and the persin driving it would have to know how to launch. Or, AMG, RS, M, etc tuner cars. Aside from that, not much can touch them.

    That said, I do think the TL SH AWD, while not as fast in a straight line vs the S4 or 335i (but certainly more than capable), feels more balanced, confidence inspiring and entertaining in its own right. Then, there's the elephant in the room....the significant price difference

    I'm pretty excited to get behind the wheel of the TLX.

  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,185

    " Then, there's the elephant in the room" , the TLs rear end

  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,306

    The question has to do with whether the drive is the deal, or the car.

    I live in the West where it's possible to drive at very high speeds on virtually deserted roads, and I enjoy doing so. I also spend far too much time in commuter traffic, but that can be more pleasant driving the proper vehicle.

    That said, the capabilities of most of the "watch me and what I dirve" cars are never even approached, unless you live out here, where there's a bit less of the "watch me" culture. Certainly more than there used to be (which was zero), but not so much.

    I continue to watch the parade go by.

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,673
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,673

    On my way back from Tuscon this afternoon, the outside temp gauge reached 120... It's cazy hot here...

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