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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,286

    Do you have an opinion on the dynamic pricing of cars? If you would like to share your opinion of car pricing being dependent on factors like availability or consumer demand (much the way plane tickets or hotel rooms are priced), please send your daytime contact info to pr@edmunds.com no later than Friday, 8/1/14 at 1 p.m. PT/4 p.m. ET.

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  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,648

    @Mr_Shiftright said: That Benz was the 2014 model right? I didn't think the 2015 C class is in the showrooms for another month or so? I can't keep track of all the model numbers anymore!

    Funny you should ask this, here are the prices for the 2015 CLA and C class cars...

    blog.caranddriver.com/price-check-mercedes-prices-all-new-2015-c-class-sedan-gla-class-crossover/

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,310

    FN...thanks for that. The C400 sounds tasty. Under $50K? Loaded? Twin turbo V6? Yeah, I'd like that.

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,648

    @graphicguy said: FN...thanks for that. The C400 sounds tasty. Under $50K? Loaded? Twin turbo V6? Yeah, I'd like that.

    The issue is MB sport suspension is not very sporty. But time will tell once they hit the market and the cars get reviewed.

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,310

    FN....no disagreement about the Benz. But, based on my sister's C350 sport, it's tuned to where the vast majority of drivers would like a sports sedan to be tuned.

    In all frankness, BMW is moving towards the type of tuning BMW and Audi have been slowly going towards for the last few years. The IS 350 is now the "sport sedan King" according to the trade rags.....a Lexus. Go figure!

    It will be interesting when the C400 finally hits the streets. For what looks to be $5K-$7K less than a comparable 335ix or an S4, you get a Mercedes sports sedan.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,266

    Are there any links to the Benz 2015 USA-based coupes?

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  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,310

    @Mr_Shiftright said: Are there any links to the Benz 2015 USA-based coupes?

    Not seen anything about the coupe specifically. MB has a general '15 C Class page, though.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,266

    I'm going to help a friend shop for a Benz next month or so. He's undecided between a new C class or an off-lease older E class. I suppose there is wisdom in both choices. I have to be careful not to influence the decision, but rather just "inform" it.

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  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,648

    @graphicguy said:

    It will be interesting when the C400 finally hits the streets. For what looks to be $5K-$7K less than a comparable 335ix or an S4, you get a Mercedes sports sedan.

    We have talked about this before, 5-7K wont make a difference between people in the 50+K price range. People who like MB will buy MB and those who like BMW will BMW, and those who shop on price a lone really don't care what they drive... One is right or wrong, just want is important to you at the time.

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,310

    @flightnurse said:

    FN.....gotta disagree. I think the price delta matters more to those who are shopping in that price range. I'm a case in point.

  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,176

    Price def matters - a 10% difference means a lot. Just like when people talk about cross shopping under 35k it gets a little mixed with mainstream loaded sedans verse barebones sudo lux.

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,648

    @graphicguy said: FN.....gotta disagree. I think the price delta matters more to those who are shopping in that price range. I'm a case in point.

    Graphic and I stated, that, "there are people who shop price and really don't care if it is a BMW, Audi, MB or Lexus.... But look at Mr. 28 Audi's for the most part he will get an Audi doesn't matter if he could have gotten a MB for $30 less a month.

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,648

    Graphic here you go, the drive and test of the new Acrua TLX..

    caranddriver.com/news/2015-acura-tlx-24l-35l-35l-sh-awd-first-drive-review

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,310

    Thanks FN and M6....looks like Acura has a winner on its hands.

    They all make the point that plopping in a 328/335 similarly equipped with similar performance is going to run way up the price scale. And, as was pointed out, like Audi and BMW, Acura's style is evolutionary, not revolutionary.

    As previously mentioned, I want to hold onto my TL SH AWD at least until the warranty is up....which won't be for another couple of years. As it stands, I've had two oil changes and two tire rotations in 17,000 miles. That's it. I think maintenance has cost me about $140 in the 1.5 years I've had it.

    It will be at the top of my shopping list when the time comes, though.

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,310

    Opprtune posting....my Acura sales guy got two TLXs in stock....one 4 cyl, one 6. Just test drove both. Will give impressiosns when I have more time.

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,966

    nice. I will trust your reports more than the magazines!

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's) and 2007 Volvo S40 (mine)

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,770

    @graphicguy

    Great write up on the 435i & C350. There are a few things the current (outgoing) C has going for it. Good old hydraulic, belt driven, power steering. An adaptive suspension that reacts to road conditions & steering inputs (electronically). MB is a big company and can throw major incentives in the form of trunk money, cheap financing, & attractive lease rates.

    I agree that price is a factor, even when you get north of $50K.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,310
    edited August 5

    Stick....thanks.

    Get this out of the way up front, The TLX looks much better in person than the pics I've seen.

    Dealer had two cars....one black with a sweet dark saddle interior. i really like that combo. The other one was white with black interior.

    The interiors are a big upgrade over mine, and pretty much turns it into a leader in the segment. All controls move with precision and smoothness that lead the pack.

    The 4 has an 8 speed, dual clutch trans. Fun drive. The DCT performs extremely well. Steering is light, and precise. It tightens up well as you gain speed....very linear.

    Gun it, and it leaps. Quick, firm shifts with "blip" matching revs. It's as roomy inside as my TL. They say it has shorter front and rear overhangs. Maybe. Not sure. Plenty of rear seat room.

    Seat of pants tells me 0-60 around 6-6.5 secs.

    Leather is good...better than the fake stuff other brands tout. Better than most premium leathers in other premium brands.

    Dual screens...top one for NAV. Bottom one for audio and HVAC. This car will compete well with 4 cyl A4s, 320/8i, C300 4 cyl.

    The V6 was a FWD Advance. It was as loaded as any car I've ever driven. 9 speed push button trans. It's always in the right gear and will run to redline in every gear. It will snap to any gear firmly....right now!

    Great seats, very high quality materials. Super quiet. Again...steering was light but tightened up at speed.

    Suspension is really refined and sophisticated...comparable to a much more expensive car. Nothing seems to upset it....and I tried.

    I expect 0-60 to be in the low to mid 5s. Like the 4, it loves to run and sounds/feels smooth, typical Acura motors. These just seem to want run hard.

    P-AWS is slick....you point.....it goes...no drama, understeer well controlled....as fast as you dare to go.

    I saw the MSRP of the V6 Advance.....~$42K. Not sure about the 4 cyl. That includes the ELS surround system (best I've heard in a car), lane keeping, intelligent cruise, sunroof, really nice leather, remote start...everything. A BMW 3 or 4, A/S4, C class would easily cost an extra $10K to $15K for something similar. Dealer said Acura is giving $1,500 discount and $500 in "add-ons" for anyone trading an '08 on up.

    They had two demos (which I drove). But had sold the 4 they got in stock Last weekend.

    This car is going to be a hit. Plus, the headlights are really cool.

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,966

    Makes me want one. The 4 would be plenty for me. 2 weeks back when I was in for service the salesman said the were giving a preorder discount, plus the $500 in ad dons if you put a deposit down to get on the list.

    Does sound like it could be a hit.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's) and 2007 Volvo S40 (mine)

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,310

    stick....I can see the 4 cyl being the volume leader. That's a whole lot of car for mid-high $30s. Plus, it was fun to drive...built as good as anything I've ever driven...that includes some pretty nice cars.

    My sales man, given his job is to sell cars, tried to get me to trade. He can't. The car is "too hot" right now for a skinny deal.

    Anyone in the market in this segment owes it to themselves to put the TL at the top of their shopping list, though.

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,785
    edited August 5

    Accord EXL Navi vs. Acura TLX Tech

    Since I love having built-in navi, this will be a comparison of the Accord EXL Navi ($30,835) with the Acura TLX with Tech Package ($35,025), and so we're looking at a difference of $5k. We all know that to get a good discount on a TLX anything close to what you can get on the Accord you'd need to wait c. 4-6 months for production to ramp up. But I can wait. My 2008 Accord EXL navi 5MT is working quite well, and is still under the HondaCare warranty all the way until Jan. of 2016.

    Here's my very subjective evaluation of what each feature of the TLX might be "worth" to me personally, compared to an Accord EXL navi. I admit, I haven't yet been in the car, but I do trust Honda/Acura to create a good quality product, since I've owned 3 Accords and had good experiences with all of them....

    8-speed dual-clutch transmission compared to CVT: $1000

    206 hp engine compared to 185 for the Accord: $600

    PAWS precision all-wheel steering: $600

    larger performance tires/better alloy wheels: $600

    Upgraded brakes (320mm vs. 292mm): $400

    440-watt ELS Studio surround 10-speaker: $800

    JewelEye LED headlights $300

    60/40 split fold down seats: $300

    Premium interior including Milano leather: $800

    Very nice exterior+structural upgrades: $800

    longer warranty: $400

    tilt down mirrors: $200

    paddle shifters: $300

    Real Time Traffic: $200

    Rain sensing wipers: $200

    Blind Spot Info system: $300

    Lane Keeping Assist: $300

    Rear Cross Traffic Monitor: $300

    Driver's side Knee airbag: $300

    Integrated Dynamic System (Econ, Normal, Sport, Sport +): $400

    -$600 for LaneWatch which comes with the Accord but not on the Acura.

    Some of this stuff I have no idea if I'd like. Lane Keeping Assist? I hope I pay attention and drive for myself (wish everyone would hang-up and drive), but maybe useful....? Rain sensing wipers? Surely I'm not so lazy or blind that I can't turn the wipers on?? So I didn't put much down for those. I imagine an Acura engineer looking at how much time and $ it cost for them to put that in would be annoyed at me.

    But a great sound system like the award-winning ELS set-up is worth a lot to me.

    Quite possibly I'm still missing some things.

    But anyway, admitting that this is very subjective and a total guess (since I haven't yet driven a TLX), but based on the strong reviews, as well as my strong trust in Honda/Acura this upgrade to the TLX seems to be "worth it" to me. In fact, it seems to add up to:

    c. $8500 or so imaginary dollars of "worth it" to me for a c. 5k price.

    Seems like Acura is trying to get back in the game by making the TLX a lot of car and a lot of tech for the money.

    Sorry this is so long....


  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,310

    Benjamin....those of us who remember how Acura got into the U.S. luxury car market was by doing the exact same thing they're doing now. They're putting a very feature and tech rich car, that competes with drivetrain and suspension that rivals (sometimes exceeds) their much more expensive German counterparts.

    Looks like they're getting back to that winning formula.

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,785
    edited August 5

    Yes. I remember admiring the original Legend in 1986 when I was in college for those very reasons. This one's about the size of the Legend too. And so maybe I'll get to own a TLX with a little ghost of a "Legend" in it after all.

    It does seem to represent a great value for the money. And made in Ohio is a plus!+++ All three of my Accords were made at Marysville, and they have all been great cars.

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,770

    @graphicguy

    I'm checking out the standard features on the "base" model for $30,995 and am digging it. All Wheel Steering, Bluetooth, Backup Camera, Dual Clutch Gearbox. Although I do like the 18" Wheels on the V6 model better.

    Once these TLXs hit the streets, there are going to be some very nice used 2013 - 2014 TL SH AWDs getting traded in & leases ending for the mid-high $20s.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,310

    @nyccarguy said: graphicguy‌

    I'm checking out the standard features on the "base" model for $30,995 and am digging it. All Wheel Steering, Bluetooth, Backup Camera, Dual Clutch Gearbox. Although I do like the 18" Wheels on the V6 model better.

    Once these TLXs hit the streets, there are going to be some very nice used 2013 - 2014 TL SH AWDs getting traded in & leases ending for the mid-high $20s.

    Are you trying to push me, Bradd?

    :D

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,785
    edited August 5

    As nyccarguy says, the entry-level Acura TLX is quite lavishly equipped for $31k.

    Out of curiosity, I just priced-out a BMW 320i with most (but far from all) of the equipment on the TLX Tech Pkg. The BMW 320i came to $42.5k, and yet was still missing several things found on the Acura.

  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,176
    edited August 6

    I love the enthusiasm for acura- yeah- they are getting back to what they were as someone noted- so much for so cheap another wrote- and the best quote was from someone who said looks like some good deals coming. On 13-14 TL sh cars , cars that didn't sell to begin with. Hello - acura needs to show the enthusiast something. Infact they need to show the general buying public something- that something is a car that not only is cheaper - but performs (including mpg) and also looks good- now I have not seen or tested one- as another acura lover did here but reading this article says all -

    http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/latest-reviews/beauty-queen-valedictorian-2015-acura-tlx-earns-high-marks-luxury-sedan-segment-article-1.1891166

    Car forgot some stuff- 1) Looks - 2) performance - 3) mpg in "volume leader"

    The last TL got lapped by every car in sales- performance and looks- even thou some like to believe the car actually looked good -(after compliments, really?)

    The last tsx was no better then current accord that "all about the benjimens" is looking at.

    I respect the review from past TL owneder but I will wait for the professionals in comparo test, also the eye test is huge (like the [non-permissible content removed] and grill on the last TL)-will it actually look ok, or do you have to get it in certain colors in order to escape the elephant man car a select few leased?

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,770

    Maybe if you can hold off for another year & a half we can do business;).

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,648

    @benjaminh said: As nyccarguy says, the entry-level Acura TLX is quite lavishly equipped for $31k.

    Out of curiosity, I just priced-out a BMW 320i with most (but far from all) of the equipment on the TLX Tech Pkg. The BMW 320i came to $42.5k, and yet was still missing several things found on the Acura.

    Some people want a FWD car and others want RWD,

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