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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,652
    Look at high school football teams

    even younger...as my trim 90 lbs 8 year old leaves bodies in his wake...just an opening for dad to brag :)
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,278
    because almost every car these days can be had with leather and NAV, and so you have to look further and be a bit more discerning in what exactly "luxury" means aside from leather and a high price tag.

    Not all leathers and NAV systems were created equal. You can have grade A leather, grade b, grade C, grade D, grade F.

    The way it is put together, installed, and assmebled can vary in quality as well as the material itself.

    I thought the Infiniti's I looked at in 2009 were very nice inside.
  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,522
    The TL is a great car to commute in, but if you are looking for a car with soul, the Acrua line (except for the NSX) is a company to avoid. The TL really doesn't have much competition since its front wheel drive it isn't taken are seriously as a sport sedan as the BMW. Audi's handle well in quattro form but not so well in FWD version.
  • He did not say the G was not a Sports Sedan- he simply said the interior was too small for his liking. I felt the same way too when I test drove it, the size and the intrusive engine noise made me gave keys back to the salesman in a twinkle of the eye.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,706
    And then you test drove the C class or a BMW. ;)

    Huge difference. Quiet, refined, and what you want in terms of proper luxury.

    The main reason Acura, Infiniti, and Lexus all come off as trying too hard and a bit plain vanilla is because in Japan, they don't really exist. There is Honda. Period. There is Nissan. End of choices. Toyota just recently stsrted selling Lexus over there, but for almost two decades, it was simply another model of Toyota.

    Mercedes, they make luxury cars and that's it aside from a few military vehicles and their commercial truck line. It's not a standard vehicle that's been tweaked and had a lot of bling added. It's the real deal. BMW is the same. And Audi, though they are a lot like VW in some ways, has always been its own company and own engineering. A lot like say, Cadillac - there has been some overlap from time to time with the lower end models, but it's always been its own company/line.

    Acura does nothing for me. In fact, Volvo makes better cars these days. (very nice, in fact, and off of most people's radar here) Infiniti has their highest-end large car, which is good, and proper luxury, but it's also huge and basically like a big Lexus in how it drives. And, lastly, Lexus. Very nice, but still so devoid of soul and personality that it screams "safe vanilla choice".
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    edited September 2011
    "That said, the TSX simply doesn't belong as it's just a plain vanilla "Accord" to the rest of the world. Over here, they slap Acura badges on it and raise the price. It's front wheel drive, has a plain vanilla 4 cylinder engine, and the handling is, well, standard family car. It's a NICE car, but it's not proper luxury OR proper sports."

    The American Accord is creamy vanilla. The Accord of the "rest of the world" (our TSX) is far from it. Your comments make it obvious that you have never actually driven a TSX 6MT at speed.

    Around town during a test drive, yes, it might resemble a smaller tighter Accord at first glance, but on a racetrack, there is no comparison. Take it from someone who knows first hand, the TSX is a responsive, dynamic, fun-to-drive sport sedan. Period.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    You do realize that vehicles from the 5-Series below and E-Class below are not even considered luxury over in Europe? I suppose not. Hate to break it to you, Caddy has never been it own company/line. It has and always will be a luxury division/line of a larger company, just like Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, and Audi are. I do agree with your comments about Lexus though being a "safe vanilla choice". Mercedes Benz is another "safe vanilla choice" and neither Lexus nor MB has ever done anything to knock my socks off. They both are devoid of soul and fun.

    But Infiniti is no way a safe vanilla choice by any stretch of the imagination. That just goes to show you really need to test drive the vehicles you put down. It is quite sad that you limit yourself to the overpriced, poorer reliability of BMW and MB as your only options as true luxury vehicles.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,091
    I agree with you 100% fedlawman. Even though my 2010 TSX is equipped with an automatic, it is the best automatic I've ever driven. It holds shifts in M(anual) mode until I (the driver) flicks the paddle on the right for it to upshift. Even in S(port) mode, as long as my foot is planted, the revs will keep climbing to the redline before the transmission upshifts.

    I've heard the TSX with a 6-speed stick is an absolute blast to drive. We've already got one car in our fleet that my wife cannot drive (my 2001 Honda Prelude Type SH). When we bought the Acura, it was supposed to be her car (replacing our dearly loved 2007 BMW X3). Since we found out child #3 is on her way, we bought my wife a Pilot & I inherited the TSX.

    Is my TSX perfect? No. Like our resident 1st generation TSX owner says "the wrong wheels are driving the car.". I don't like the electric power steering.

    Those who say it is "just a rebadged Accord" need to drive the 2 cars back to back.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,091
    Back in 2009 I drove an Accord EX-L w/ NAV & a TSX w/ Tech Pkg. Both had almost identical sticker prices. While the Accord's V6 had "more punch," the TSX's I4 was much smoother. The suspension is tuned much more taut in the TSX. The TSX has stiffer anti-roll bars.

    It is definitely a car you have to drive to appreciate.

    I'm not saying the TL isn't more of a driver's car with it's 305 hp V6 & SH AWD. It's price of admission is significantly higher than the TSX. It also didn't meet the gas mileage requirements of the cash 4 clunkers program.

    For the record, I dig "the beak."

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,050
    edited September 2011
    "Infiniti has their highest-end large car, which is good, and proper luxury, but it's also huge and basically like a big Lexus in how it drives."

    dude you've never driven a M37, M50 or the M37 hybrid with that statement- Or maybe you've never driven the big lexus-- which i guess your talking about the LS. Totally different cars- you should try them.

    "The main reason Acura, Infiniti, and Lexus all come off as trying too hard and a bit plain vanilla is because in Japan, they don't really exist." trying to hard?? what are you saying here?? hello- all 3 of these brands have been around for 20 years.. they have sold millions of cars and have huge amounts of brand cred across the world.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,706
    You do realize that vehicles from the 5-Series below and E-Class below are not even considered luxury over in Europe?

    Absolutely. What's amazing is that we consider an Accord with a fancy badge on it and some upgraded suspension parts to be luxury over here. Now, to be fair, a lot of that is because they are a bit jaded over there, but you'd figure that the minimum standard would at least be something like a 5 series or similar in the U.S. Not re-badged Accords and Buicks and the like.

    Perhaps we've been driving crap for so long over here that we now consider above average to be fantastic. The TSX might be great to a lot of people, but they are simply unaware. To consider it a "luxury sport sedan", well it fails on both accounts. Front wheel drive, underpowered for its weight unless you get the V6, dead steering feel, and, well, the list goes on and on. If you consider it to be awesome luxury, well, more power to you.

    As for trying to find a "luxury sport sedan", well, my take on it is that nobody makes one any more. They now all make large luxury cars with a sporty suspension and needlessly large tires to compensate.

    Here's a challenge:
    Find me a car with 2 or 4 doors. If 2 doors, it must have a usable back seat. No, the 911 does not qualify, obviously.
    It must be rear wheel drive.
    It must be under 3000lbs.
    It must be sporty. Not rims and some spoiler but really upgraded.

    And that's before we add the luxury requirement to the mix.

    Can anyone here find one? Really. Maybe I forgot some vehicle or something? Everything I find is front wheel drive or hundreds of pounds heavier. Even raising the weight to 3200lbs adds a mere handful of choices in the first category. (since the E36 was 3200 lbs, this is as heavy as I'd consider)
    ****
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    You do realize that this is the "Entry-Level" Luxury Sport Sedan forum, right?

    There is a difference between luxury and near-luxury. All of these cars walk the line.
  • "hello- all 3 of these brands have been around for 20 years.. they have sold millions of cars and have huge amounts of brand cred across the world."

    I'd take issue with this, at least as far as Europe is concerned. Yes, Lexus has been around for a long time, but Infiniti as a brand is a very recent arrival. Is Acura even present there? My NSX I drove when I lived in the UK was badged as a Honda, not an Acura, and didn't suffer one iota because of it.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,652
    Here's a challenge:...

    Not sure you'd ever find anything in the "Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedan" with those qualifications.

    The luxury...and the sedan part usually push it over 3000lbs...

    but...
    Audi TT (not a sedan...not really RWD...but probably just as good...over 3000 lbs...by a little).

    ummm...How about a 911 :) Hey...for under $40k you can pick up a nice 05-06.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,566
    I am, at this point, unable to comment on squeaks and rattles and premature seat wear. Are your comments based on personal experience?

    Yes, I've owned two. They were reliable, however :D .
  • 22332233 Posts: 65
    edited September 2011
    I believe that the Lexus brand and the Infiniti brand were created the same year.

    Infiniti was known then for producing ads that did not show the vehicles.
  • "I believe that the Lexus brand and the Infiniti brand were created the same year. "

    Which wasn't the point under discussion. It was whether those brands were known world-wide. Lexus were active in Europe pretty much from launch. Infiniti was conceived as more of a US brand. Infiniti cars weren't sold officially in Europe until 2008. When I left the UK in 2002, cars that were labelled Acura in the US were sold with a Honda badge in Europe.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,892
    Are the Hondas sold in Europe the exact same car as the Acuras sold here in the US? When I say exact I don't mean safety because there are obvious differences due to those regulations, but are they the same level of, for want of a better word, luxury. If so, what kind of prices are these cars being sold for in Europe? Maybe the Honda as we know it here wouldn't even sell in Europe because they would be too low rent so to speak.
  • We play football here-does the rest of the world care?
    Who cares what our luxury models are badged as in Europe?
    A guy driving around in a 5 series here might get waved at by European tourist thinking its a cab-big deal, culture clash.
    We live here, lets keep our focus here.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    Of course its a challenge, because the criteria you place on a sports sedan is absurd. I never said the TSX is a sport sedan but the G37 and 3-Series most certainly are. You will find few people who will argue otherwise. I didn't realize that the 16inch and 17inch wheels offered OEM are needlessly large tires? I suppose some 14 inch ones would be better :P

    The problem is, you and many others place too much emphasis on what the rest of the world is doing in the car market. Who cares what is and what is not offered in Japan, or Germany, China, Korea, etc. Who cares that Lexus, or Infiniti, and Acura are not everywhere around the globe. What matters is they are here and have been for some time now. All that matters is what we are offered here and what we get to choose from. In my life, I have had plenty of mainstream division cars and luxury division vehicles, trust me, there is a big difference between the two.

    Unfortunately, people such as yourself, go in at bat with the mindset that they are just rebadged junk and not worth the money, but there is more than just the name and price. It is nicer materials, better put together body, longer warranty, better dealership experience, etc and some other perks you get at the luxury companies than the mainstream. I've seen it first hand from many different makes, both American, German, and Japanese.
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