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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans



  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    The Acura has been in it's current form since 2009, like the G37 has been around for a few years.

    The interior of the Acura is busy in my opinion, made me feel like a cockpit. On the other hand, the interior of a G with the accents is soothing.

    I feel lost in the Acura, I have a nice cozy feeling in the G.

    SH-AWD makes the Acura perform as well as the rest of the ELLPSs, over the FWD, as it is a nose heavy car, which is why I say it really hasn't moved forward.

    Car buying is so subjective, to each their own.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I can live without TPMS, my wifes 5 year car has it, but I can live without it.

    You forgot HID headlights.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,662
    Auto shut off and restart after full stop: ditto.

    I maybe ol'school regarding this...But I recall countless statements regarding the life of engines and how they could run in perpetuity...if it were not for the "starting"; which is where all the wear occurs. I've also read that they've engineered for this and it doesn't cause additional wear (but I just don't believe it)

    It's like having sensors in the car that would monitor your it could turn off your headlights for that brief moment to save some precious energy...maybe my example is a bit too extreme :)

    but i'll pass on both :shades:
  • Didn't forget them at all . . . just thought my [subjective] point had been made.

    Hell, I grew up where only rich people's cars had A/C and power windows. My dad got a new Plymouth in 1969 with power steering -- but no power brakes. And even though it was the top of the line Plymouth Satellite with a 318 V8 (the 383 and Hemi were reserved for the Road Runner and the 440 was for the GTX), it didn't have factory air -- so my dad had the dealer install aftermarket A/C which meant the front bench seat could only seat two instead of three because of the "device" (the blowing unit) that was installed that stuck way out into the passenger area.

    The first time I got a car with power steering, brakes AND windows, I knew I had become a member of "the club." That car was a 1976 Chrysler Cordoba with fine Corithian Leather (how many remember that reference?)

    It still had an AM only radio though, but with a speaker in the rear deck it was "upscale" befitting someone of my stature (in "the club," of course.)

    And, man o' man, when I got a car that had a rear window defroster (which was a slit in the rear deck through which air was blown by a motor located in the trunk), well, peel me a grape, Mabel.

    Power door locks engendered a similar reaction when I got a 4-door car with FRONT only power door locks (and, as I recall, FRONT only power windows, too.) The dome light only came on when you opened a FRONT door, on this car -- probably saved $.50 per door to omit the rear on/off switch.

    When I got an Audi with an infra-red remote (who's dumbass idea was THAT, anyway? -- infra-red, geesh) -- I had another grape peeling moment as well.

    These days its power everything on virtually every car -- and even if you didn't want these assists, well, it would be virtually impossible to NOT have them.

    My 1978 Audi 5000 was my first car with heated seats -- I used to take people for rides in the car and secretly turn on the seat heaters. . .why? Because back then heated seats were rare (and novel.)

    I also didn't forget articulating headlights, nor did I forget bi-xenons (which the Acura TL lacks, strangely.)

    Memories. . .memories. . . . :blush:
  • You may be right about your longevity concern -- I really don't know. What I have read, however, is that the full stop, engine shut off, then engine restart when "the light changes" will save countless gallons of fuel once this tech is widespread.

    Perhaps there is little to be concerned with about the engine -- I would, however, wonder if the constant restarting of the engine would not be hard on the starter MOTOR?

    In any case, I assume this auto shut off will be placed in widespread use as we strive to save every drop of fuel we can by almost any and every means even remotely possible.

    Somewhere I read that there is a patent on a technology that "warms up" the transmission when the car is started COLD; this warm transmission apparently yields a bit more MPG's, and, over the life of the car, this "bit more" adds up. It is especially interesting when one extrapolates this to millions of cars and finds that the annual savings ends up being a governmental sum of money and fuel saved (so they say.)

    Fuel saving tires have been in production and use for years (you can tell I watch too much TV) -- even though the savings per car are only a few drops of fuel annually (but again when extrapolated to millions of cars, these drops become a big deal and big bucks.)

    Mostly (which is NOT the same as entirely) I am for virtually all new technolgies and also for the upgrading of "older" technologies to make them "better" (and greener, too, if possible). When a new technology is found to be wasteful, harmful or just plain inappropriate though, I am all for scrapping it, beginning a new project or exploring a new idea and moving forward. :surprise:
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I remember when my father had an Audi 5000 and Audi 4000 side by side in the garage. After the 4000 he got a Legend. Yep, memories.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Regarding the whole Start/Stop thing while sitting stopped at a light or some such, I don't think it will affect engine longevity at all. Why? Because the bulk of engine wear comes when cold starting an engine where the lubricant has had a considerable amount of time to drain down into the sump; a couple of minutes at a light just isn't all that long in the grand scheme of things.

    Other fuel economy related thoughts:

    I find the concentration on things like transmission oil temperatures for improving fuel economy curious, and if I might be so bold, highly questionable. From my perspective, for a relatively modest investment (compared to the potential gain), it makes sense to me to harvest the latent heat radiating off the exhaust system to power the various subsystems of the vehicle. I'm thinking there is many-many times the necessary power lost in the form of radiated heat to drive the electricals, the power assist pumps, the A/C compressor, and even the valve train (electrically or hydraulically).

    Remove the mechanical load of all of those components from the engine and fuel economy should easily see a double-digit percentage gain. The only company which has announced such a research project is BMW; hopefully it will become a reality sooner than later.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,092
    I know there was quite a stir when the Hyundai Genesis came out. Don't know if it fits in this discussion, but I actually had test driven one when they first came out. Nice "first" effort at a lux car by Hyundai (they really should change their name for cars sold in the U.S.).

    Well, I got my first chance to drive one for an extensive period of time. It was a rental (Enterprise). It was the 6 cyl model with what looked like the middle of the options package (everything but Nav).

    First, it's a BIG car.

    It drove fine....actually, it drove pretty good. I was in Milwaukee (OshKosh) WI with it when it snowed for the first time this Fall. It handled the snow and slush just fine.

    The suspension that everyone bitched about isn't least not as bad as I had read about here at Edmunds. Yes, there are some road surfaces that cause an unrefined chassis feeling, but for the most part, it was fine....similar to a Mercedes E, without the unrefined part.

    There were some things where hitting their price point caused some short cuts. If that's real wood in the cabin, the trees they used must have been very sick. The seats are....well....they're wide....certainly not very comfortable (and on the opposite end of the seats you'd find in the TL SH AWD or my 335i....both are great). The lighting is superb in the cabin.

    They spend the money on the drivetrain, you can tell. The engine is responsive and sounds uber refined. The transmission shifts seamlessly and is ready to kick down when needed.

    All the switches feel richer than they should, and operate with a smoothness that was unexpected.

    All-in-all a nice first effort. Came close to mimicking the A6, Mercedes E, Lexus LS, (not really in the same category as a BMW 5 from both a dynamic and performance category). Not quite hit the nail on the head, but relatively close for a lot less money.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,106
    Infiniti is getting left behind? Your comments again have no basis- look at the reviews and sales numbers- hello. What do I think? Well I think you are not a good car picker and if you worked at a brokerage like you say I would not let you pick a stock either. You bot a Mazda milleneum, nuf said. Good luck with the next car, made you should wait I hear Cadillac bringing back the cimarron.
  • billyperksiibillyperksii Posts: 198
    edited November 2011
    Here we go again- reviews, sales numbers, is there anything else you base your decisions on?
    Of course they are getting left behind- always playin catch up to BMW.
    I pick based on value not like the masses (including yourself) who chases the trend. And by the way, whats wrong with the Millennia?
    Back in 2000 that car had all the goodies any other entry luxury car had to offer, leather, 17" wheels, in dash 6 disc palyer, heated seats, fog lamps etc etc- it just did not have the luxury name that you tend to chase after.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,590
    First off attacking what a person drives is the first sign of a weak debater.

    The Mileneum at the time was a great car, it was to have been part of the Upper Division that mazda was going introduce (Think Acrua, Infiniti and Lexus) however Mazda has $$ problems so the 929 and Mileneum never got the support from Mazda. Which is too bad since the triple rotor Cosmos would have came here to the states.

    The G25 is a great car however it needs more HP, since the entry level 3 series makes more HP then G25. The G37 is no costing very close to that of the 335i when it comes to a few thousand dollars which adds only $10-30/m to payments why get the G37? The engine in the G37 isn't as smooth as the G35 was, or as smooth as the BMW. With the sport package the 3 series is a better handler.

    BUT it all depends on what the buyer wants, Would I like a 400hp 3 series, YES, but I'm not willing to pay entry fee into the world of the M3. Cars are so subjective that its impossible to say what is better and what is worse.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I don't base my purchase decisions on reviews or sales number, but I use them to inject a sense of reality into some of these conversations. Of course, Infiniti, Acura, Cadillac is playing catch-up to BMW in one sense.

    On the other hand each of them has their own strong characteristics that would make them a compelling purchase for some lucky buyer.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,737
    Well I think you are not a good car picker and if you worked at a brokerage like you say I would not let you pick a stock either. You bot a Mazda milleneum, nuf said.

    Strongly opinionated, aren't we? Apparently some people are ALWAYS right and couldn't possibly consider other opinions. Of course we saw that re: TSX. ;)
  • ctlctl Posts: 123
    These are all good cars, and different people have different opinions and tastes, so there isn't really right or wrong here. However, to be fair, I think it was billyperksii that thrown the first stone? a cheap shot at infiniti :)
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,092
    Wait....let me get my popcorn. This should be a good show! :shades:
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,106
    edited November 2011

    There is a reason why Mazda no longer makes the car- no one bought it - pretty simple so yes i can bring sales numbers and professional reviews into a conversation - mainly because they are fact. I mean for you to have an option is fine but it's your opinion not the majority - you drove the last sudo lux car built by Mazda -that no longer exists . Infiniti has a car that saved the brand - even with its " harsh engine." For 40k it's a great car loaded. Look at flight nurse she couldn't swing the extra 10-30 bux a month and is stuck in the 328 when she wanted the 335 she keeps writting about. Btw I love when people talk about monthly payment verse actual cost - for me 10k is a significant number if your buying a car. If I was in that situation I would have test drove a g37xs just to actually see how it road.
  • billyperksiibillyperksii Posts: 198
    edited November 2011
    Sweeny, I love you man but we are not always on the same page when it comes to logic and reasoning- aka-common sense.
    If I inderstand you correctly, you are saying that if a professional sates an opinion in their article it is a fact?- really.
    So lets take for example, Mr.X states that the Mercedes E63 styling is a little on the Edgy side-is that a fact or his opinion?
    Better yet if Mr.Y states in his article that the G37X ride is harsh, tiresome and downright not suitable for the human body is that a fact or an opinion?- let me take a guess-its a FACT because the professional said so!!!!!
    Bottom line, I value my own.
    Secondly, the Millennia was a great car, I chose it over the I35, I could not live with that rear I BEAM that came with the I35-no love lost.
  • You may be correct that the Mazda was a great car. I think the point that was being made was that it was not a commercial success.

    My Mazda "great car" was an Audi allroad (2003) -- station wagons are apparently "hip and cool" (who uses that anymore?), CUV's have replaced SUV's somewhat because they are more car-like. The allroad was part station wagon (the cool part?), great CAR-LIKE attributes and it could go light off-roading.

    It failed (in the US at least).

    It is often a matter of showing the mfgr the money.

    This is my concern about Acura. It seems they have sliding sales and somewhat lackluster products. Their next gen refresh is critical. Show them the money!

    Drive it like you live. :surprise:
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,590
    Dude, not all nurses are female, so before placing gender to a name, get your facts.

    I never stated I wanted a 335i, I stated I would have gone for the M3, however in May its my partners turn for a BMW and we decided he would get a 535i, so I "settled" for the 328i because of this.

    Why do I need 4WD car in Phoenix, AZ? Granted it snowed here in Phoenix 3 years ago, but it melted when it hit the ground. I drove the G37S, and the engine isn't as smooth as the in-line 6 of the BMW, the transmission isn't as good as the one in the BMW, the BMW I bought handles better then the G37S, also Infiniti wasn't willing to deal on the car. The 328i I bought (not leased) was a great bargain, and the resale value of this BMW is higher then the G37S.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "Why do I need 4WD car in Phoenix, AZ? Granted it snowed here in Phoenix 3 years ago, but it melted when it hit the ground."

    I say roughly the same thing here in New Hampshire, "Why do I need an AWD car here in New England? Granted we had over one-hundred inches of snow last winter, but the plows get on it quickly."

    From my perspective, a 328i shod with winter tires will be safer than a 328xi with the factory all-season tires when driven in slippery conditions. :shades:
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