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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

1626627629631632860

Comments

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,108
    Experiment = leader add? Are you sure its not a 323 you own and not a 328?
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,475
    Those are sold in Canada, but not US.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,150
    Regarding my 328i, first you are making an assumption that my 328 is a strip down car ...

    No, I'm not. Actually, I'm assuming it has the right options. In the used car world, most options are assumed to be there and you start deducting when they aren't. So when I said $20k, that assumed premium package and auto trans, at the least. I didn't realize you had a stick. So the $22k is probably generous.

    You apparently don't understand depreciation as you said you did because you failed to realize my main point, which is that most options add zero-to-very-little value to a used car.

    BTW, the average buyer can not get cars at auction prices so that is a mood [sic] point.

    Thanks for that. Did you wonder why I posted selling prices as well as auction prices? :confuse:

    So currently at one of the local BMW dealers in Phoenix, has 2 BMW 328s with the M sport package with 40 and 49K miles are asking 28 and 30K for them.

    Good for them. But, as your own buying story indicates, asking price and selling price are vastly different things. I'd also bet those are CPO.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,475
    edited February 2012
    Nurse may be a classic example of somebody who assumes they should get their car 20% below invoice, but same car should sell later 20% above dealer retail, just for mere fact of them keeping it in a garage and washing it every week. :D Look for highest dealer asking price in their area, add another twenty percent to that is and then say "That's the value of my car". LOL :D

    I disagree a bit with you on options. There is some "basic level" assumed, which usually may be above stripper, but there are options adding value, at least in first couple of years. Manual transmission does not have to be a value subtracting proposition for BMW - the car is rare enought to attract a few sporty stick shift afficionados, especially with M-package. That's a good combo. May not attract a buyer first day, but chances are those who show up may be more motivated - of course there will also be jokers as well.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,108
    Talking Mazda .
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,475
    Now, THAT IS funny :D :D

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,150
    edited February 2012
    but there are options adding value, at least in first couple of years

    well, yes, of course. Those that I detailed in one of my posts above. With BMWs, for example, premium is assumed. Sport adds value, as does Nav. They do, however, as I said, suffer worse depreciation than the rest of the car.

    A stick does hurt it at trade time, but you are correct that it doesn't have to hurt it at selling time. Dealers do the same thing. That's a sort of joke I've told before, and complained to salespeople about, too... they'll tell me "nobody wants it" when trading it to them, but then its "rare/hard to come by!" when buying it from them. So poor stick drivers get the shaft coming and going.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,475
    I agree - options do depreciate faster than base. I heard that Toyota actually accounts for that in their lease formulas (different residual percentage for base and different for options), which is probably smart thing for their protection, but will significantly increase lease payment for loaded models.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,412
    "...complained to salespeople about, too... they'll tell me "nobody wants it" when trading it to them, but then its "rare/hard to come by!" when buying it from them. So poor stick drivers get the shaft coming and going."

    Very well said Q! Right on the money!

    dino - I know the ride, build quality (solidness), RWD handling balance are very different between your 328iT & your WRX STi, but how are you holding up with the severe power differences between the 2 cars.

    Q - I totally agree with you regarding the auction values of cars, that's what you get from the dealer whether it is a 10/10 or a 7/10. They deduct more if the car is in rough shape and don't add so much if the car is truly exceptional.

    Sometimes, if you have the perfect car for the perfect buyer, things can work out in both of your favors. Back in 1998, when we graduated college a friend of mine had to have a Mustang Convertible with a stick. He special ordered a V6 (VEE SIX) Mustang Convertible with a stick. We tell him he's NUTS because everyone who wants a Mustang with a Stick Shift is going to want a GT (V8) & he's going to have a lot of trouble selling the car when the time comes.

    To say my friend is anal about how he keeps his cars is and understatement. He also made it look like a GT (Dual Exhaust, Rear Bumper to Integrate dual exhaust, fake hood scoop...).

    Fast forward to 2003. He Special orders a MINI Cooper S. His MINI comes in and he starts looking into selling his Faux GT V6 5 SPeed Mustang Convertible. I do some research for him & tell him that given the way domestics depreciate & given his car is a complete odd ball to expect to get maybe $11K TOPS for the car.

    He lists it himself anyway after getting trade in offer of like $10-$10,5 (Plus paying full sticker for the MINI). He gets a call from some 16 year old kid who wants a Mustang with a stick, but insurance (& his parents) prohibits him from buying a V8. He likes the stick, the convertible, (Mom Likes the V6), & most importantly the faux GT styling. I think my friend got $16K for his car.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,475
    Well, I don't miss that power because I didn't really need it at the first place. I already feel my 41 years of age, so kid cars don't excite me as much. I got that STI because it was a deal one could not resists. Nice to get and have for a while, but glad it's over now. Traded these horses for better mileage, refinement, quiet cabin, and good stuff inside with no regrets. It is 230 hp vs 305, but in torque it is 200@2750 vs 290@4400, which means at low end the difference is less and delivery is linear. 328 is deceptively quick - not explosive or screaming, but it is just enough. I like it just the way it is.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,108
    I find it funny that it's mid feb and no sedan on local dealers lot - maybe because I live in AWD country and they have yet to build them.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,475
    2012 3XXix and 335d sedan will be still old body and engines, just like coupe and convertible. I don't have any insider info, but new Fxx body will probably be 2013 for those. No way to say when, if all of it will come at fall, or if they space it out from spring to winter, as they usually do. Strategically it is better to have something to talk about every three months than have big talk once, but production lines have to be switched. When I was in Munich in October, they were making both new sedan and old wagon bodies on the same line, but that may be unique to that place.

    For now, new body/engine will only be on 328i and 335i sedans, which is announced, but I don't think it has come to lots yet.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,100
    edited February 2012
    Around OH, KY, IN, TN, etc, a loaded 328i with M and other options are tough to come by. They usually reserve those options for the 335i. That said, $47K for a 328i is a ton of money. I can buy a 335i for less than that.

    That said, BMW dealers don't sell at a loss. They'll hold on to a 328i like you describe, use it as a loaner, or a demo. But, dealers sell just about all the ones they can get their hands on. IF you bought it at $7K-$8K off MSRP, the option list may not be what is reported, or it has a bunch of miles on it as a demo/loaner.

    BTW.....took my 3er in to have the oil changed (6K miles, paid for it out of my own pocket....next one is on BMW), and they let me drive a '12 328i sedan. Interesting with a 4 cy...drive train's a lilttle rough.... uncharacteristic of a BMW. Significantly down on power compared to mine, too.

    From the outside, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between an '11 and a '12. Interesting interior (don't know the name of it). Looks like the interior of a 5 series. IF you like the 5, you'll like the new 3.

    But, as mentioned, the coupe/'vert for '12 is the same as my '11 coupe. So, not significant changes there for awhile.

    Ride, handling, etc? About the same as an '11.

    As I told my sales person (who is always nice to me when I stop by), "I'd take a steeply discounted '11 over this "updated" '12".

    He agreed with me.

    Should be interesting to see the sales numbers this year. They say MPG will go way up on the '12. But, I'm getting 23-24 MPG in mixed driving on mine, already. And, I've got a heavy right foot.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,590
    Motor Trend reported that only the Sedan will be available for 2012, coupe and convertible will be old body style. Mid summer BMW will release the M package for the 328i and 335i. A 4 cyl diesel to be released by fall (look for mid 40's highway mpg.) The 6 cyl diesel will be dropped from the 3 series completely when the 4 cyl diesel is released.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,590
    In Phoenix I test drove a 2012 328i sport with tech package and assorted goodies, price was 42K. I liked it, the turbo 4 pulls very strong, yes it is faster then 2011 328i, the car has more room in it, and an adult that is 6 ft tall can fit in the rear seat comfortably. Over all nice car, the new M package will give more power to the turbo 4, dealer does not know how much though, however i'm guessing 10-15hp more, kind of like the 330i with the ZPH package did.

    Sween I doubt BWM dealers in your neck of the woods wont a regular 328i they want it with iDrive, wont happen until fall. The there are a couple of big markets for 3 series, So Florida, So Cal and Nor Cal, so I'm guess those markets and markets close to them will have first choice of cars.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,590
    You are assuming too much, first off, I wasn't looking to buy a car the day I bought mine, however, the offer was presented to me, thought about it, retested the car, liked it, and bought it. I didn't sit and haggle with them at all, the price was written on a piece of paper, and was explained about the "experiment" he (the GM) tried, it failed, and he wanted to move the car, he was losing money on the car. I figured he would make up the difference he lost on the car from others who purchased cars. 2 weeks after buying the car, I went back to the dealership and purchased the extra 2 yr 50K extended warranty (bumper to bumper.) So when I sell my car, I know I should get the price I want. My cars are kept in pristine condition, and all service work done to them. So please save your arm chair quarter backing for your friends and co-workers.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,412
    I completely understand your liking the 328xit over the STi for its refinement & other aspects you mentioned. A 328 isn't blazing fast, but has no trouble getting up to speed & will cruise all day long on the right side of the 80 mph hash mark.

    The STi has always been a screaming performer, but at the end of the day it is still an almost $40K car.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,150
    LOL

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,475
    All I can say good luck - I really hope you can get it. Send us a report fours years from now, would you? ;)

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,475
    Small correction - mine does not have "x" (it's a RWD - so yes I switched from AWD to RWD). They also stopped adding "t" in wagons (stands for "touring"), but it would still apply if they had ;) .

    Anyway, I love it. It is all I wanted - no more, no less. I only have two complaints - dashboard looks like it is 15 years old, designwise, and the cupholders/armrest storage really suck. I think of BMW design process like this: they develop/refine engines and transmissions for 4 years, they obsess about new/improved suspension and steering for 2 years, exterior styling takes them about 10 months, then two weeks before the premier Hans just realized they forgot about the instrument cluster (again ;) ) - so they pull one from the previous generation (which was used in one before that), slightly change fonts and send it to the marketing department... :surprise:

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

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