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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans



  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,098

    Sorry about that....looks like I started into a free-fall ramble with the above post. I don't get here that often these days. ;)
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,590
    Fedman it appears that BMW and Porsche's had thier value much better then others. However, if you look at the base price for a new 911, you are talking 80K base...

    The CPO 335i for 40K seems about right, a fully loaded 335i is almost 60K.

    You should be able to find a CPO 2009 off lease with less then 40K, which would increase the warranty to 100K for mid to low 20's.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,590
    Currently Infiniti has the G25 for the entry into the G sedan, which also gets better MPG then the thirsty G37. Right now I don't think a turbo 4 is in the works for Infiniti, however they need to raise their CAFE for get fined. Now since Nissan has some great diesels in Europe and Japan, not too sure why they don't bring these engines over to the US.

    Regarding design, Infiniti has been on a evolution of their cars, so maybe a refresh would help sales.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,106
    Yeah Audi needs to bump hp (which I Have mentioned before) but the engine does have a good enuf torque- unlike the tsx ( still in Elpps?) has what 180lbs. I like when you say the base price for a top a4 car- what, what, what...Moving on I agree Audi as also expensive when compared to base level japaniese comps for sure. The tl g give you more for sure- to bad they don't throw in free wipers and oil changes like the great BMW maintaince plan. (iPhone sorry for the mistypes)

    Flight nurse - why did you need my age again ?
  • I think we're going to see a bigger difference between the G25 and the G37. Currently the MPG and price differences are too small in my opinion so I wouldn't be surprised to see the G25 end up with a turbo engine and the G37 to continue on its merry way with a new more sporty exterior and LED daytime running lights. I think there are some pictures floating around out there from a recent auto show hinting at the new G coupe - looks a lot sportier like the Nissan Z.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    edited February 2012
    "You should be able to find a CPO 2009 off lease with less then 40K, which would increase the warranty to 100K for mid to low 20's."

    Based on the stickers I saw, I am very sure I cannot get a CPO 2009 335i for less than $30K.

    Fortunately, I'm not interested in a 335i. After driving it, I didn't like the response of the throttle. It's not turbo lag, per se, but there is definitely a disconnected feeling that I don't like.

    The only BMW I would consider right now is an E90 M3. I've given myself an upper limit of $60K (but I'd prefer to stay below $50K). I'm in no hurry so I can wait for the right car and deal.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    I was first really interested in the G25 when it came out, but when I saw the mpg rating (which is the same as a RWD G37) for its size engine, it completely turned me off. I hope Infiniti rectifies it.

    I agree with the Nissan diesels in other countries, why they don't bring them over. I highly doubt they will, especially with the M hybrid, it seems that, at least Infiniti, is going to do a hybrid as their fuel efficient choice of technology.

    I agree, Infiniti is much like BMW in doing an evolution of their vehicles rather than a revolution, so I expect only a moderate refresh will be done on the G lineup. If they go in the direction of the essence concept, then they should be in good shape design wise.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,106
    From what I read Nissan and mb are getting together on a 6. Being a Nissan fan I don't know what to expect because from what I'm hearing mb is doing most of the work- should be interesting - I dont think it's going to be ready by 2013 so I don't know of any real update for the G is really in store - atleast what I have read - please share any links detailing the new G
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    The G is in its 6th model year, 2007-2012, its due for a redesign. Sales have sagged on the G, and with the new 3 Series, I can't see any logical reason to prolong the redesign into a 7th model year. I don't know of any luxury make bread/butter model, that has gone that long without a moderate-major redesign.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,662
    The Lexus IS350 is from 2006 and is basically the same for 2012...same engine/transmission.

    The 2007 G was a was G37 in 2009.

    The IS is probably not Lexus' "bread/butter"...but whatever food group it belongs to, it's starting to smell a bit after so many years.

    I have an IS and if I were shopping today it probably wouldn't be close to the top of my list.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,106
    The sales comment and redesign is tht your opinion or fact? If fact from where? Like I said mb and Nissan getting together on a 6 that will be the standard engine for a boatload of cars - I have no read anything on the redesign, which is funny because it's match and Infiniti usually releases new models in oct-
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,098
    Didn't realize the G's current iteration was that "mature". But, you're right, it's time for a major upgrade. They've got about as much mileage out of that platform (both the Altima and the G) as they can wring out of it.

    Same with the IS. I remember looking at an IS350 6 years ago. Wanted to pull the trigger, but the local Lexus dealer acted insulted that I tried to negotiate on it. Now, I'm glad I didn't pull the trigger on one.

    I can see how the current lux/sport landscape is settling in. On the very top end, you have the BMW 3. On the mid-range, you have the A4/5 and Mercedes C. On the entry range, there's the TL and the G....these are the biggest "bang for the buck" in this range.

    I'm going to watch the next iterations of the TL and the G closely. I've always liked both.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    Fact: The G is in its sixth model year 2007-2012
    - your playing with semantics, all that changed between 2008 and 2009 was the 3.7 liter V6 and 7spd transmission.

    Fact: The G was down 9% for Jan 2012 in sales and just now broke even with YTD in 2011.

    Fact: The introduction of the G25 did not increase the G's overall sales number in the quantity Infiniti originally hoped for.

    Fact: The Altima is being redesigned for 2013

    With this FACTUAL information, there is a need to introduce a redesign G that is more refined, has much better mpg, etc than the current 2nd Gen G series. Like someone else mentioned, Infiniti has milked its current iteration. They need something fresh to keep nipping on the heels of the 3-Series!

    Hey, I'm not Infiniti hater, I had an Infiniti at one point, but they need to get their act together to stay competitive. I think this co-op with Mercedes will bring the refinement to the Infiniti line-up that everyone has wanted and complained about for years. I hope they apply this as well and bring a redesigned FX and EX b/c those two crossovers are not helping their sales numbers either.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    I'm not sure how the G is on the lower end of that range considering it is constantly compared against the 3-Series. If anything the 3-Series and G are at the top of the range, with the A4/C-Class in the middle and ES/TL on the lower end of the range.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    edited March 2012
    Have you seen pictures (concepts) of the new G? It is fugly!

    To my eyes, it looks like a Bizzarro World version of the Genesis Coupe.

    When did the Japanese start copying the Koreans?
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,733
    The TL isn't in this class at all, though, as it's a large luxury sedan that's similar to a Cadillac or Lexus. It's also front wheel drive, which further complicates the problem.

    To be entry level and performance, it has to have three things.
    - Rear wheel drive. If it is AWD, it absolutely has to be rear-wheel biased. (performance part #1)
    - Be midsize or compact (performance part #2)
    - Not just a tin can with a bunch of leather added.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,106
    Fact is you have yet to post any actual information from any source about the redo. You quote sales numbers. The sales figure you quoted, fact says they sold the same Amt of cars ytd as they did in 2011- so they are flat by your estimates. You stated the obvious that they are in the 7th year with the current car, and while I agree they need a refresh I have not seen any word on this coming, but you stated Fact that they are a go for 2013, maybe a spy shot or 2 of Infinitis main seller. I would like to see the press release or a car mag that inFact states this is true- not some comment about the Altima, a car that's for sure the same body style bit 90% of its sales are 4cyl, is fwd, and uses a cvt- 3 major differences when doing a redu. Its great to have an opionion but it's not Fact no matter how many times you write it.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    Everything I stated was fact. Perhaps if you spent less time arguing with people on here about how great Infiniti is, and actually do some research online, you wouldn't have to be so argumentative.

    BTW - I never said Infiniti confirmed a redesign for 2013, as myself and others have pointed, we said they are in NEED of a redesign as the car is in its sixth model year. Big difference. Nor did I say the car is in its seventh model year. If you do some simple math 2012-2007, that is 6 yrs not 7 yrs.

    Everything I stated is fact, as is the Altima sharing the same platform as the G Sedan so if the Altima is getting redesign, it makes logical sense that the G would be as well as that is a common occurrence when platforms are shared.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,147
    edited March 2012
    so if the Altima is getting redesign, it makes logical sense that the G would be as well as that is a common occurrence when platforms are shared.

    Not if moving forward with the same platform. The sheetmetal bolted to it isn't shared between the vehicles, so it doesn't matter if one gets redesigned UNLESS it is moving to a new platform.

    HOWEVER, in this case, you are incorrect anyway, as the G is on the FM platform (RWD/AWD), while the Altima is on the D platform.

    Speaking of which, the FM platform is already 11 years old. I wish Nissan would either replace it altogether or keep using it just for SUVs. The damned thing results in porky cars. They need something lighter yet more rigid for the Z/G, IMHO.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • billyperksiibillyperksii Posts: 198
    edited March 2012
    What's the purpose of this post?
    Is it based on ranting or just pure ignorance?
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