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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • danny1878danny1878 Posts: 339
    These things keep me inside the vehicle most of the time
    1. Reliability
    2. Looks/styling
    3. Comfort, extra features
    4. Fuel efficiency
    5. Low cost maintenance
    6. safety features (VSA, TCS, LSD, Brakes, lane departure warning etc.)
    7. Acceleration (late for a meeting)
    8. Resale Value
    9. prestige
    10. Exclusivity

    People seldom use (only a few):
    1. Top speed (do you go 155mph daily?)
    2. Best Handling(Tossing and fast turning, go to a race track often?)
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    I know exterior is subjective but do you seriously think the G35 coupe does not have a muscular look to it. If that is the case than you are in the minority.

    I think it has too many flat surfaces without any lines breaking up the flow. The end result is more of a blob of metal - like the 04 5 series.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    it's tramlining. I think it's highly correlated to tire height. My 3-series didn't do it much at all, but my saab REALLY did, so bad that my cousin refused to drive it on a road trip once. I was already used to it that that point, and barely noticed it.



    Say what? My 35 series tires on my 330i tramline like crazy. Any road groove sends the car jerking in that direction. It's reached the point that I'll switch lanes if the road's got issues. As it's san diego - where they never repair roads - I'm always avoiding road problems.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    People seldom use (only a few):
    1. Top speed (do you go 155mph daily?)
    2. Best Handling(Tossing and fast turning, go to a race track often?)


    Don’t know about “seldom” use of these. Even if you don’t take a car to performance limits its capabilities enable safer driving. A better performing car will allow you to accelerate and brake from trouble. A better handling car will allow radical maneuvering away from trouble. People tend to think sports cars are dangerous. I think they are akin to good preventive medicine and are the safest cars you can buy. The aggressive manner in which some people drive performance cars has everything to do with thrills and little to do with safety but I’m sure you get the point.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    The aggressive manner in which some people drive performance cars has everything to do with thrills and little to do with safety but I’m sure you get the point.


    Oh yeah. I drove the bimmer today and at lunch I just hit some curvy fun roads - over and over. Lunch, smunch, I've got 20 mph corners to take at insane speeds.
  • kominskykominsky Posts: 850
    Does you ZHP have a staggered setup? I've been told that staggered tire sizes increase tramlining. While I can't say for sure if this is true or not, I do notice that my staggered 8-month setup (245/40r and 225/45f) tramlines MUCH worse than my non-staggered winter setup (225/45's on all corners). Other factors that may play into this are; softer sidewalls on winter package, different tread patterns/materials, that extra inch of tread width on the rears during the summer may be just enough to catch more edges in the road... maybe a combination of them or maybe none at all.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    "Lunch, smunch, I've got 20 mph corners to take at insane speeds."

    Get yourself a sports car and you'll never eat lunch again, not to mention all the hooky you'll be playing. I live for corners, bobbin', weavin', stoppin', goin', rowing the 6-speed.
  • kahunahkahunah Posts: 448
    ...about "torque steer" and "radical maneuvering away from trouble"...

    Here's what CR wrote about these issues after their TL road test:

    "The Acura feels taut and responsive in cornering, with well-contained body lean. The nicely weighted steering is communicative and quick. In emergency-handling tests, the TL demonstrated good tire grip and cornering balance, and it proved secure in our avoidance maneuver, where it posted a quick 52.5-mph. Powered by a smooth 270-hp, 3.2-liter V6, the TL is noticeably quicker than many of its competitors. Even with such high horsepower, the car was largely devoid of torque steer..."
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Sort of the exact opposite of the R&T article.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Don't read the magazines and then quote them here...we all subscribe to the same rags.

    If you're going to say it's got torque steer, why don't you test drive one and then report back?
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    "Say what? My 35 series tires on my 330i tramline like crazy."

    Yeah--they're 35 series! I didn't say what direction the correlation was, i figured it was obvious.
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    kahunah... There is a huge difference between the complete absence of something and being largely devoid of that something. The former has none of it while the latter still does.

    A bit like deciding whether to worry upon entering a building that was labelled largely devoid of anthrax.

    As C&D and others have written, the torque steer issue is most problematic with MANUAL TRANSMISSON TLs. By its very nature, the slushbox works to amelieorate much, though not all, of the inherent torque steer.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Does you ZHP have a staggered setup? I've been told that staggered tire sizes increase tramlining. While I can't say for sure if this is true or not, I do notice that my staggered 8-month setup (245/40r and 225/45f) tramlines MUCH worse than my non-staggered winter setup (225/45's on all corners). Other factors that may play into this are; softer sidewalls on winter package, different tread patterns/materials, that extra inch of tread width on the rears during the summer may be just enough to catch more edges in the road... maybe a combination of them or maybe none at all.

    They are staggered, so that may play a role in it.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    By its very nature, the slushbox works to amelieorate much, though not all, of the inherent torque steer.

    not to mention its negative impact on fun too. :)
  • raherraher Posts: 99
    Most of what ends up getting posted these days is the same subjects and opinions that were being discussed a month ago...torque steer, my car is faster than your car, handles better, is prettier, etc etc etc
    I took a five hour road trip to Eastern Washington and back to play golf today and to just drive my TL. Great road to drive leading up to a mountain pass and through a gorgeous canyon with a river running next to the road. The TL is such a nice road car. I wasn't throwing it around as some do mostly because the road is notorious for state police and sure enough they were out at 7:00 AM when I was driving over. Sun was up at 7:00 and I drove home in 80 degree temperatures. I really got a dose of what a near luxury sport sedan is about.
    The car is extremely comfortable, great sound system, fun to drive fast when you can and I got 30 miles per gallon coming home because there was enough traffic you couldn't really drive fast. I didn't feel any torque steer and I was doing 80 through some of the corners going over in the morning.
    There surely are some differences in the cars being discussed here but the numbers are so small as to be almost inconsequential in most cases (.89 versus .90 skidpad..5.6 versus 5.8 0-60)
    I believe the kind of driving I did today is the true measure of a near luxury sport sedan because I think it represents the kind of driving that 99% of the people who own these cars actually do. I am sure that my trip would have been just as enjoyable in a 330I or a G or an IS 300. I just happen to own a TL and today I was really pleased that I do.
  • kahunahkahunah Posts: 448
    ...having taken several road trips myself to cottage country, Niagara-on-the-Lake, and our nation's capital (Ottawa) in the last few months that included snow covered roads. I know exactly how you feel. As you cruise down the highway, passing all the slower cars and enjoying the view, you smile and think to youself...this is one great road car!

    Let's hear from the other members about great (and maybe not so great) road trips they've taken recently with their 'Entry-Level Luxury Performance Sedans'.
  • jmessjmess Posts: 677
    I wish I could take extended road trips in every car in this class. I am sure that everyone of them would be fun and offer something a little different from the others.
  • danny1878danny1878 Posts: 339
    Those driving manner are dangerous, no matter what, but not the car. TL is one of the highest safety rating car and TL is also capable of doing those, but do you really need that? challenging the unexpected? is it possible without endangering others?

    I dont think any of these car in this category is considered as a sport car. do you?
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    challenging the unexpected? is it possible without endangering others?

    Life is short, enjoy it while you can.

    I dont think any of these car in this category is considered as a sport car. do you?

    Not many sports cars still made - Miata, 350z, RX-8, Vette and the rest are over 50k. So while not sports cars, we do have sports sedans - best of both worlds - room for 4 and the ability to cut loose and enjoy performance that was the air of only sports cars in the earl 90s.
  • 280hp280hp Posts: 36
    And here's mine :

    1)Audi A4
    2)Volvo S60 R
    3)BMW330xi
    4)Mercedes C320
    5)Cadillac CTS
    6)Jaguar X-Type
    7)Saab 9-5
    8)Infiniti G35
    9)Lexus IS 300
    10)Acura TL
    11)Saab 9-3
    12)Acura TSX
    13)Volvo S60

    Here's some of those not being discussed i would cross shop and consider :

    VW Passat W8, Audi A6, Subaru Legacy, Nissan Maxima.

    In fact, if i had to pick one, it would the Passat W8, cause it has some performance, some luxury, but most importantly, it says middle class suburbs.

    :)
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Hmmm, my definition if "Tramlining" is when you are driving on roads, primarily in California, that have parallel grooves cut in them for water relief so as to help prevent hydroplaning.

    My definition of "Torque Steer" is when the driven front wheels take steering matters into their own hands when power is applied, especially during a turn or when the road surface is sloped.

    When I described the phenomena on I-80, which is (relatively) smooth asphalt and has two ruts, one for the left tire and one for the right, I was referring to Torque Steer, at least according to my definition.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • speedracer3speedracer3 Posts: 650
    Definition: The annoying tendency of some front-wheel drive vehicles to pull to one side when engine torque is applied. In other words, you step on the gas and the car wants to steer right or left. By redesigning the power train to use equal length half shafts between the transaxle and wheels, the tendency towards torque steer can be greatly reduced. The other cure is to keep off the gas
  • danny1878danny1878 Posts: 339
    You are right, life is short, make a good use of it and dont waste it.

    We do have sports sedan and I prefer the real sedan size(not the civic size sedan) with a lot of comforting features and great power. Thats what makes the car alive. The lifespan of a car is so short, enjoy it while you can. Cheers :-)
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    My family and I are taking our Volvo V70 on a road trip to So Cal this summer...I am looking forward to the chance to stretch the Volvo's legs.

    I just took a short road trip to Bellingham and back last week. Unfortunately, it was in my company car...a 2000 Chevy Lumina 3.1L. It's actually a very comfortable highway car - quiet, soft suspension, and soft seats. For commuting, it's actually more than adequate.
  • raherraher Posts: 99
    Highway 9 is the road to ride to B'ham. An enthusiasts delight.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Yeah, I've spent some time on 9. Mostly down south near Monroe/Lake Stevens, but I have been up further around Sedro Wooley too.

    I once read that one of the best roads in Washington is highway 11 (or is it 12) that goes from Mt Vernon to Fairhaven.

    I drove it once last year when my wife and I went to La Conner for the weekend and it was a nice ride (sometimes gotta keep the pace down because of bicycles). Have you heard of it?
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,754
    I have a 1998 A4 2.8 (I know, previous model). Things I don't like about it:
    - A bit too small, especially back seat w/kids
    - Climate control fan is too noisy and not enough AC for the fan speed
    - Not enough low end torque with 4WD

    Things I like about the Audi:
    - interior quality
    - steering is impeccable
    - Bose is excellent
    - Shifter and clutch like butter

    I drove a G35 6MT a few months ago for curiosity. Great engine and steering. Things I didn't like:
    - Interior is only fair after having an Audi
    - Steering - I drove about 70 mph around a sweeping freeway interchange ramp. There's a spot where the pavement changes and there's a 1/2-1 inch elevation difference. When I hit it in the G35 the steering wheel wanted to jerk out of my hand - THAT'S the sort of real-world handling I DON'T like! I tried the same spot and speed later in my A4 and there was virtually no 'kick' in the steering wheel. In conclusion, the interior and this steering behavior were enough to rule out the G35 for me.

    I'm now looking at the TL. I drove an automatic and liked it quite a bit. I'm going to go check out the 6MT.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Is this the first post of the next millenium?
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Or is it this one?
  • kahunahkahunah Posts: 448
    What size tires and wheels does your A4 have?
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