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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,050
    While very long, your post did include interesting points but I do one again take issue with the toaster comment. They have available data for 10 years worth of data for each cars reliability- so the sample size is bigger then one Audi and one Acura - I agree with you that if you are looking new the first 50k in driving should be pretty worry free- plus if it's not the standard warrantee should help with the major items - and any savy person should know what's real required and recommended services and know what makes up one service. The german lease argument very true but what if your looking at a used BMW - shouldn't you look at an unbiased mag like CR (who has 10!yrs of data) to make an informed decision - or just ask a buddy who has had ONE reliable/durable audi that he owned from new ? CRs sample size - to big to ignore.(sorry for the long post)
  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,566
    so far the Acura and the Infiniti seem to visit the dealership for some multi-hundred dollar required "maintenance" procedure about every 3,750 miles.

    Interesting you should mention that as the Infiniti salesman who dealt on my 2007 G35 lease admitted that the warranty would still be in effect even if the recommended maintenance (aside from oil changes) was not done. I don't know if that has changed from recommended to required.

    Reminds me, when I brought my '08 E-Class in for its 1yr. maintenance for $250+, not only did I get the checklist of things done, but I got a ding over the rear fender wheel opening for no extra charge :sick: .
  • kyfdx%40Edmundskyfdx%40Edmunds Posts: 25,851
    edited April 2012
    3750 mile oil change on our Infiniti was $27.... That included valet pickup and delivery ...

    We've had BMWs under the maintenance plan for 10 years total... Never needed an alignment or a throttle body cleaning.. Never had any maintenance recommended that wasn't included in the plan.. (not that I would have them do an alignment, anyway....)

    Now, on a CPO BMW, I've been stuck with one repair that I thought should have been covered... but, other than that, I've had only good experiences with them (they did quote me $950 for two tires and an alignment, though.... took a pass..lol)

    Moderator - Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,050
    Yep I pay 30bux for Infiniti oil change with coupon- 30k miles and 4 years I've put a total of 500 bux into car- Going to also need tires soon - looking at trading it in for 2010 cpo BMW 6speed awd 335 with m package- can u say needle in hay stack- also any CR issues will be dealt with before car leaves lot- should be
    3-5 years before delivery
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,883
    edited April 2012
    About the TL or G. Both good cars. Either would work. G is a bit fuel thirsty. So, that's something to consider. If you can find a used TL with SH AWD, that's the one to get. They handle superbly.

    Regarding maintenance, TLs really don't require more maintenance than any other Honda product. The SH AWD models require a little more, but not much more.

    Price for maintenance on a TL shouldn't vary much from a Honda either.

    BMW service.....on the one previous to my current one, I swapped out the run flats as they were horrid. The new run flats on my current 335i are much better. Aside from that, everwhthing else was covered, including brakes and windshield wipers ( the only two things that required service other than oil changes, tire rotations).

    I've used Costco gasoline almost exclusively in my vehicles, my son's vehicles and GFs vehicles for 10 years. Never had any problems with the fuel system needing to be cleaned......EVER!

    I throw in a bottle of Techron into the gas tank every 10,000 miles just to be on the safe side.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,426
    BMW service.....on the one previous to my current one, I swapped out the run flats as they were horrid. The new run flats on my current 335i are much better

    Before I got my 328i, I read about those terrible run-flats. Awful, people say, just loud and harsh. Then the delivery came and this supposedly terrible tires (I got sports pack, mind you so those are 17" performance summer), came to be quite allright. Of course, my point of reference is 2008 STI, so I may have a little skewed perception. Now almost six months and 7k miles passed and I'm still not feeling those tires being so awful. Yes, I noticed a little more noise on certain types of surface than one could expect in an entry lux car, but I'm not sure if similar performance GFTs wouldn't be the same. Those are Continentals, perhaps Bridgestones are worse, or perhaps RFTs are simply getting better. I even read that certain small punctures can even be fixed now, if one doesn't let the tire to go on zero pressure for too long (read, you get flat, you pull to the next tire store) - not sure if it's really true. People say a lot of things...

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,091
    We all seem to agree (I think) that BMW's free maintenance is (1) built in to the price of the car and (2) has extended intervals since BMW started including it. Wherever you sit on this, there's no doubt in my mind that it adds value. I was looking through my own 328xi's vehicle computer and found that my car will require the following scheduled maintenance:

    15,000 miles - oil change (within year 1)
    25,000 miles - front brake pads (within year 2)
    29,000 miles - Inspection I - major service (within year 2)
    30,000 miles - rear brake pads (within year 2)

    Now let's use that schedule and see what else I can muster up.

    45,000 miles - oil change

    That's it for the maintenance that is included in the cost of my BMW. 2 oil changes (at the dealership) + 1 major service + front pads + rear pads add up to something.

    Now not everyone does the 20K miles per year that I do, so they don't get the full value of the included maintenance.

    Here's where things get interesting. When my lease is up, my car is going to have 50,000 miles. I'm going to have a few choices & decisions to make.

    Option 1 is obviously just to turn my car in and walk away.

    Option 2 is to buy my car (from the dealer, not BMWFS) after the lease is up & hopefully be able to negotiate a price that's significantly cheaper than the lease end buy out of a little more than $26K. Say I can buy it for $21K it would be a nice used car. If I buy the car, I wouldn't go for the CPO warranty (on my previous X3 they wanted $3K to certify it), but I most certainly would go for the extended maintenance pkg that covers the maintenance up to 100K miles. IMO, even at the $2K MSRP (think I could maybe get it cheaper), it will get me:

    50,000 miles - Front Brake pads (& maybe rotors)
    60,000 miles - Inspection II (major service incl oil, filter, brake fluid, trans fluid, coolant)
    75,000 miles - Oil Change
    90,000 miles - Inspection I (semi-major service)

    I'd also be financing the buyout.

    Option #3 is to lease another car. There most likely won't be these crazy incentives on the F30 328xi that were on my car, so I'm sure a lease with the same parameters (20K miles per year) is going to be upwards of $650 - $675/ month which is too rich for my blood.

    Option #4 would be to buy a similar car to mine that has literally 1/2 the miles. My only problem with that is dealers seem to have high asking prices on loaded up, off lease, CPO cream puffs.

    I'll see what happens. For now I Love this freakin' car!

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,091
    I don't think the 17" run flats on my car are overly noisy or harsh at all.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,426
    edited April 2012
    I think there are also 30K and 60K oil changes there, aren't they?

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,091
    That's part of the Inspection I & Inspection II services

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,426
    edited April 2012
    Glad somebody else agrees with me on that. You probably have all-seasons on yours (xi gets summer tires only with M-pack, IIRC), which should be a little more gentle anyway. One drawback on the sports/M-packs are staggered size tires, which basically means the can't be rotated (the tires are also unidirectional). This basically creates a potential for more alignment needs than in normal car. However, tires can also be replaced only 2 at the time, if one is worn more than the rest due to some misalignment issues.
    Anyway, I think that alignment stuff not being part of the ALL, ALL, AND ALL (BUT TIRES) FREE is kind of baloney on part of BMW. I understand that car may never need alignment, and it is a function of road hazard, but knowing general condition of roads and overall risk, it is quite common to check it once in a while. Why can't it be a part of Inspection I, beats me. If you advertise that there is nothing, but gas and tires, than it should be just that :( .

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 13,556
    I'm betting my daughters entire college fund on option #3.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 13,556
    in the big scheme of things, an alignment is chump change. Just go to a reputable tire shop, and have it done. Heck, normally it is free to check (though they always find at least 1 # out of spec!) But it only coasts about $75 to do it. I have the 3 year plan for my van, and that was only about $125 with a coupon, and I can have it redone every 6 months for 3 years, so average it out and I am paying about $20 per alignment (and just have it done when the van is in for the free rotation and balance that came with the tires).

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,050
    Quickly - you can go to bmw own website snd see what the "free maintance" gets you vs its comp. is it backed in? Sure - but they really make you pay for :)
    Here's what BMW owners are saying about it

    http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=428361

    amazed your thinking about what your going to do 3 yesrs from now with a car you just picked up a few weeks ago.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,426
    I agree. But my BMW store thinks it is worth $200. $200!!!! :sick: It's amazing. You know, I like the idea of doing everything at once, but no way I think $200 is a fair price for an alignment job, even if it was made by a Mechanic of the Century.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,426
    edited April 2012
    amazed your thinking about what your going to do 3 yesrs from now with a car you just picked up a few weeks ago.

    That's what adults do, Sweeny :P ;)

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,091
    On my 3rd tank & calculated 20 mpg. Not too shabby for a green engine.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,091
    That seems to be the going rates for dealership alignments. $169 - $199. I can get a good alignment done for $70.

    Even if your car came with non staggered tires like on my car, BMW still won't give you a tire rotation because they advise against rotating tires.

    My car has all season Continentals.

    Sweendogy - I'm just putting some thoughts up for the board to ponder/comment on. No harm in thinking out loud.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,091
    Stickguy - I don't know. To me leasing is only worth it if the manufacturer subsidizes it with a ridiculously high residual (like my wife's former '07 X3 @ 65% after 3 years/45K or my current 328xi @ 64% after 30 months/50K) or an insanely low money factor. Don't forget I was also able to take advantage of a $2500 rebate which allowed me to buy the car way under invoice.

    If I were to finance, it would cost me $120 per month more ($3600) + with the amount of driving I do, I'm guaranteed a residual value of 64%. 2 1/2 or 3 years down the road if I were to trade the car in, no way the dealer is going to give me $26K for the car, especially when there are similar cars out there (thousands) with 1/3 to 1/2 the amount of miles. No way I'm going to justify a mid to high 6 hundred something lease payment. It's simply too much.

    Don't forget, this car payment isn't my only one. I'm on the hook for the Pilot until May 2016.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,050
    "that's what adults do"

    Really?
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