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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans



  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,926
    dino....granted, I've only driven a 3 with the SMG trans once, and it was only on a brief test drive. But, I came to the conclusion BMW's SMG trans isn't nearly ready for prime time. Maybe it's something you get used to. But, the one I drove was in a new 335is. It wasn't remotely smooth, nor was it particularly sporty.

    Again, could have been I wasn't used to it. But, I knew it wasn't for me within a minute or two of driving it.

    flightnurse.....I've heard rumblings on some of the other BMW specific forums when the PP first was announced that the 335is folks got the short end of the stick, considering what they paid to get the "is" version.
  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524
    Graphic I drove a M3 with the SMG and didn't like it, this was the last generation M3 ( I beleive) and I hoped they have gotten it right, but I guess not. Too bad, since Porsche,Audi and VW sure has. I would consider a new BMW with a SMG if it worked as well as VW's...
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,128
    I know a guy who has been a DIE HARD stick driver his entire life. He had a 997 911 C2 (6 speed manual). He got rear ended at a light and the car was very badly damaged (he was in the hospital for 2 months). The car wasnt damaged enough to be totalled, but he said it never drove right after he got it back. He immediately began searching for a new car. His 1st stop was a BMW dealership. He nearly walked out when the salesman said they didn't have any 6 Speed Stick M3s in stock for him to drive. The guy practically begged him to drive the DCT equipped M3. He drove it and absolutely LOVED it. He ended up buying an M3 Convertible with DCT.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 13,602
    I have not driven a stick since my Accord was sold back in February (my Volvo is an AT, and the other car in the family is a minivan). I still occasionally push at the imaginary clutch, or reach to shift gears, but overall have not missed it. Just driving around town of course, so no big deal, but did get stuck in NYC traffic on my trip to LI!

    and my DD had been a manual for all but 3 months since I got my first car at age 17, which is many, many, many (sadly, I just had a milestone Bday) years ago.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524
    Ok boys, according to the Detroit Freepress the ATS will start at $33,990. Too high in my book. pricing-it-s-the-new-kid-on-the-block-

    enjoy the reading...
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    And when is the last time anyone paid MSRP for a GM car? When the rebates come (and they'll come quickly), you'll be able to buy an ATS for $29,500.

    Here's to hoping it isn't ugly...
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    And if I haven't said it yet, I think the new car to buy right now is the E90 328i - while they last.
  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524
    Well when I bought my 2000 vette there were not rebates on it, of course they do sell everyone they make.

    The size of the car is important, since the ATS is smaller then a CTS, not too sure how they is going to play out... The 2012 3 series is a bigger car then 2011, the A4 is about the same size as the 3, and the C class now has livable back seats. This is going to be interesting.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,052
    A similar article was on edmunds earlier in the week- I don't think it's the starting price but the options prices and standard features that need to define if it's a player -I think we need further details before totally dismissing a non-BMW. The article did point to the fact you can get the bigger eng 6 with some technology for 42k - which in a 3400 lb car could be interesting.
  • kyfdx@Edmundskyfdx@Edmunds Posts: 25,970
    of course they do sell everyone they make.

    I think that's true of every car model, eventually...

    Moderator - Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,128
    Thank-you for the compliment my friend:)

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    I had you in mind... I think you made a smart move.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,128
    I know I made the right move:). I enjoy every single mile I drive it.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Would you believe that I am even rethinking my position on AWD? At least, certain applications of it...
  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524
    You are correct, however, in the case of the Vette, you wont see the past year model linger in the showroom very long. Not like other GM models..
  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524
    Sweeny I'm not dismissing the car at all, what I'm saying is, for the ATS to be a home run, GM best get it right the first year. Since the ATS is being billed as a 3 series fighter, they will have a problem to start with, its size. It is smaller then a 3 series, A4 and C class.

    Yes, the ATS will have the 3.6L DI engine but that doesn't mean it will be a good car...
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,926 goes to show, an opinion is worth what I charge for it ;) .

    I didn't like the SMG in the BMW. Others may like it quite a lot.

    Over the last several years, I've strayed away from manual transmissions. I think the automatics have become so accomplished and efficient, I don't think I can match the performance of a good automatic. The 6-speed auto in my 3 is great. I know I couldn't match the shifts if I were driving it with a manual.....and I'm pretty good with the left pedal.

    Some cars just cry out for a muscle cars.....or a Porsche. Everything else, a good automatic will net more performance 9 out of 10 times.

    Someone mentioned 3 series diesel cars a while back in here. I was in Manchester U.K. for business a few weeks ago. My company has a couple of cars for those of us visiting to use. I think they lease them as they change every 3-4 years. They put me in a diesel Jaguar. Not a bad car, at all. They don't understand our (meaning U.S.) affinity for "petro" cars. But, gas is about $9-$10/gal there. So, diesels are very popular.
  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524
    Graphic when it comes to the argument for and against a manual transmission I would place BMW and Vette in the category as must have. Growing up I have had only three cars that didn't have manual transmission. 65 Mustang, 57 Continental Mark II and a 1970 Datsun truck that had a Buick V6 in it. However, after driving the VW DSG car, I could live with a good dual clutch transmission car, but BMW has not built one yet. I do see the future going in that direction when it comes to performance cars.

    When it comes to prices in the UK and the EU the price for Petrol and Fuel (diesel) are about the same, this is why Diesel's are so popular. BTW, it was me who talked about the 335d.
  • robbiegrobbieg Posts: 323
    edited May 2012
    I think that regardless of the actual transaction price the ATS has to be priced less than BMW if for no other reason than frequently people look online to check out a car. I would think that if they are priced too close together no one would even take a hard look at the ATS at which point they might discover the discounts. Sometimes the "discount" doesn't appear quickly and it turns people off. Or in some markets, you have dealers that don't discount as heavily as dealers in other markets.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,052
    Flight the 328 you ride is it manual or auto?
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