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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans



  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,095
    BRAVO! Very well said my friend!

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,897
    "I also use my eye on what's on the road (as flightnurse does)."

    I think all of us that have a great deal of interest in automobiles do this. I have been known to "stalk" cars on expressways to get a good look at them from different angles. However, I've noticed over the years that unless I'm specifically looking for something, it could pass me by and and I wouldn't even notice it. That's why I won't offer an opinion on how well something is selling just because I haven't seen a bunch on the road, especially when it may not be a brand, style or model that I am particularly interested in.

    To your other point, you are talking about a % sales increase over prior year and what you say is true. However, the fact that a vehicle recently sold more than just about any other competitor vehicle in it's class doesn't have anything to do with "last year". But I also agree with flightnurse in that the RDX is a brand new redesign which has been significantly changed and has a lot of advertising tied to it. Sales will die down and then one can see how well it does going forward. But I stand by my earlier statement that "dealers are selling the H out of them" but for how long is the question.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,095
    funny you say that about stalking cars. I'm always giving cool cars the thumbs up out of my sunroof when I'm driving the Prelude. Sometimes to other BMW drivers when I'm in my 328.

    You are right that if they are outselling every key competitor in its class that it has nothing to do with last year's sales numbers. I must have gotten a post or 2 confused. I agree that sales will die down with regards to the new RDX.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • ctlctl Posts: 123
    Considering the RDX competitors in the same category, most (X3/Q3/Q5/JX...) have pretty close sales numbers (plus a RX that sells 3 times more and being 3-4 years older), most being 5K+ more expensive...

    I will say either this statement is highly exaggerated, or the sales expectation was pretty low to begin with... We might say for the new generation, sales has improved and is much better than before.

    "dealers are selling the H out of them"
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,897
    Don't quite follow what you're getting at. The RDX, according to sales figures, have sold about 3 times more in May this year versus what the 2012 sold last year. Sales numbers are sales numbers and aren't exaggerated unless you have some inside information that the sales numbers are wrong. Remember last year you were dealing with a fairly unpopular(by the general public) RDX and sales could also have been curtailed by the sunami for a short time as the 2012 model, I believe, were all built in Japan.

    When you go from almost dead last in a category to almost 1st whatever term you care to use for the increase is correct. Let's not play sematics.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,052
    I think the term well said is over done on this board (look at last time) but- nope this was well said- look at the sale numbers - its all available for you on the www - same with resid value people- for those who "have been in dealerships" and talked to sales people as you test drive the new turbo d- it's all in sales numbers. Not What some Dealer is sayig about a brand he is selling- Amazing we have gotten to this- this was pointed out when people were talking about how great the new TL was- well it was almost 30% less great then the outgoing model- its all about sales.
    Btw the Rdx is a little off topic
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,892
    fed, flight, all replied more concisely than I was able to do. Thanks!

    Finally got to drive a 2013 S4 that a friend is thinking of buying. Wasn't a long drive, but WOW!
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    edited June 2012
    Oh, the S4 is a very nice car. I love what Audi is doing right now - best cars in the segment IMO.

    Here's my biased opinion:

    Audi > BMW = M-B > Acura = Infiniti > Lexus = Volvo > Cadillac
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,652
    Audi > BMW = M-B > Volvo = Lexus > Cadillac = Infiniti > Acura
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,892
    fedlawman....I like your equation. The S4 seems more "cushy" than my 335i. But, it felt quite capable, too. My friend is looking for something to replace about a 6 year old Volvo. He wondered what I thought given I kind of live my automotive fate in this particular segment. Of course, I told him to jump on it.

    He mentioned that he may not need that much power. I didn't even think that would ever be a thought that crossed my mind or be even remotely possible.
  • billyperksiibillyperksii Posts: 198
    How is the interior sapce on the S4?
    I am actaully going over to the Audi Dealer in Greenwich today to take a look at the A6 Premium Plus with Sport and Cold package. I will probably give the S4 a look.

    Sween- please note, I said look not buy because I know you are going to be all over me about getting rid of my beloved TL.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Old posts and just catching up. :) The G is not only the value leader, but it is CRs top pick ELLPS.

    I think Infiniti is finally get serious.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I'm seriously thinking about the M as my next car. Give the G to the wife. :)
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Fed catching up, absolutely awesome.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    If the g is bloated, then so is the TL, CTS, etc. With the exception of the 3 it seems all of the Ellps are "bloated".
  • kyfdx%40Edmundskyfdx%40Edmunds Posts: 25,872
    Sort of agree..

    But, I put the TL and the CTS up one size class from the G, 3 and A4...

    I got to drive my wife's G37XS for the last three days, while she was out of town... I remain unimpressed (except for when I'm flooring it.... WOW)..


    Moderator - Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,047
    edited June 2012
    Boy did you hit the nail on the head. Acura used to offer only SH-AWD (on the AWD cars) -- and as far as I know Acura's torque vectoring rear diff was on the market before my German fave, Audi, and their sport differential (which provides the same kind of advantage in handling as does SH-AWD, albeit in a RWD biased AWD auto.)

    Acura used to lead, or at least it appeared that they used to attempt to lead.

    What have they done, what have they done? Well, look on the lots of one of their dealers -- it is really difficult to find an SH-AWD vehicle (other than the MDX). They seem to not get that FWD doesn't cut it in the Premium class. They could've simply looked at Audi (in the US). I would assume most US customers don't even know that many of Audi's cars are sold as FWD models (elsewhere). In the US, however, virtually all Audis are AWD and they have made their name as pioneers of AWD. Now 40% of BMW sedans sold (in the US) are X-drive models; and even the mighty 7 series can be had with four driven wheels. Much the same can be said about Mercedes -- RWD heritage, AWD sales aplenty here in the US.

    Acura is cross shopped with Toyota? Of course, because the base products Acura offers are contented more like Toyota or Honda rather than Audi or BMW and with the Germans widespread use of 7 and 8 speed transmissions and Honda, er Acura continuing to bring out NEW cars (e.g., the ILX) with a 5 speed shifter is a dead giveaway.

    The ILX should have been SH-AWD (only!) and come with -- at bare minimum -- the very fine 6-speed as is found in the TL.

    The line should adopt the "X" suffix and it should mean "we're all, AWD" models. The new RDX comes out and it goes with the cheaper FWD biased AWD and eschews SH-AWD (and the thing can be had as an FWD -- who's dumb idea was that?)

    The new ILX comes out, FWD only, wimpy engine and when auto equipped has the long since forgotten (by the Germans and other Premium Japanese brands) 5-speed (what were they thinking?)

    My 2012 TL Advance w/SH-AWD should be the only way this car should be sold (in SH-AWD form, that is), and there should be a bunch more options to choose from and an "S" version to keep things interesting.

    I think, too, the new RLX will be stillborn -- who will pay for an RLX when they can have an Audi A6 3.0T Prestige for about the same price?

    Acura is the new Genesis, they just don't know it yet. I never would have imagined that Genesis cars and Equus autos could be sold at a Hyundai dealership, but here in Cincinnati the inventory of Genesis and Equus cars seems quite deep and I see them on the road virtually every day -- even the Equus.

    So, Acura should fold up its separate dealership network and move back in with mom and dad -- sell Acuras as higher priced Hondas, just like Hyundai sells Genesis cars as a separate line, but from the same dealership.

    And the reason that Lexus can "get away" with using some Toyotas as donor cars, is that the finished product -- from Lexus -- shares little with Toyota in its looks and interior.

    My TL has waaaaaaay too much Honda in it, is my point.

    Audis USED to have a whole bunch of VW in them -- over time Audi became a little less VW as every model year passed. Now, there certainly is "something" that reminds me of Audi in a new CC -- but there is virtually nothing in an Audi that reminds me of VW. Acuras are very nice, very smooth, apparently very high resale value cars and very much like "Hondas who know somebody."

    The Premium class will miss Acura when it finally fades away.

    I say all of the above not as a disatisfied Acura owner -- quite the contrary, the 2012 TL is very nice -- I'd give it an A-. It may be, however, that Acura has given up. It no longer wants to be the Japanese Audi. It never did want to be the Japanese BMW. I don't know what it wants to be anymore -- but it had better figure it out soon.

    For the record, I've never liked Lexus -- until this year, with their new more sporting, less sofa-like, cars (esp the GS). I am liking, more and more all the time, Infiniti, helped by the fact that my wife now has 30K miles on her 2011 FX35, and for a CUV, this thing is as impressive at 30,000 as it was at 1 (mile); and the M's are worth comparing to A6 and 5 series if you ask me.

    The only company that seems to be sailing the seas rudderless is Acura.

    More's the pity. :surprise:
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Love the g. The size is perfect. And yes, it is fast and rides like it is on rails. I'm unimpressed with the a4 and TL.

    Plus there are rumors of a 530 hp ipl. The next few years will be interesting.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,052
    Nice - and I remain impressed with my old g35x with 31k miles drives nice for a 5 year old with bald tires- i dont let my wife drive it, my maintence costs over the 5 years were about the same as a civic+ the 10 plus I paid less then a 335xi - performance + power at a cheaper price I think this car has been a home run.

    I like the Audi a4/s4 look- would love an s4, stick, quatro - they are a little front heavy and not cheap but it's a nice rig. The TL in current form and long name Should go away. Someone mentioned folding Acura into honda - makes since but I don't see it happening - and they just spent 1.5m on a Super Bowl commercial.
  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,523
    The G37 makes more HP then a BMW 335, but the BMW is quicker 0-60 and in the quarter miles. It appears that BMW laps Willow Springs "Street" track as well as "race" track quicker then a G37. So I guess this does make it a better deal...
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