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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524
    I'm not too sure about the CTS being one size up on the 3 series, that CTS is very tight in the back seat as well as drivers seat....I rented one for a week and was no impressed with it at all..
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I agree, and if you followed my posts over time you know my first love is BMW. However the g37 is a sweet package. According to goodcarbadcar.net, it's the second best japanese luxury seller after the rx.

    Also rented a CTS and agree with your comments.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,052
    BMW is the best for sure, but throwing dollars in the debate it's a lot closer.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,428
    edited June 2012
    I just checked Acura's website. So ILX w/6-speed manual (FWD) is 30 grand. This is demented - souped up Civic at price of fully loaded Accord (including Nav). Makes no sense whatsoever to me. TSX is basically superior car in every dimension, but I suspect it costs them too much. Too low sales to support bringing all-different chassis vs. having something run on volume seller. The only one that could make some sense is hybrid - at 34 grand it is positioned to compete with Lexus CT (which goes higher when you load it up). Definietely not ELLPS, but may find its niche.
    Who is running their marketing? I want a name. ;)

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • wirelesswireless Posts: 47
    Marketing? How about their design department? Can't figure out who would actually purchase that ugly thing.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,653
    No joke...back in the day...my "best man" and I were having a conversation about cars. He's not a car guy at-all. Last time we talked he was "sharing" a car in the city he was living (pay per use type thing).

    Anyway...he mentioned how great the Pontiac Aztek was. How it was one of the vehicles he could own; it had and did everything.

    They'll probably still sell a few ILXs :shades:
  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524
    ILX is suppose to bring the kids who grew with the luxury cars their parents owned. This is according to Car and Driver, however, if these kids are use to BMW, Audi and MB, why would they get a Japaneses car and not stick with a brand they are use to. As I stated before, why would anyone pay 33K for a ILX when they can get a CPO BMW 328i for the same price.. I think this is going to be a very hard sell for Acura...
  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524
    So is the new ILX considered an ELLP ? Has the TXS now moved up from the entry level model? Can a car brand have two ELLP cars?
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,052
    "can a car brand have 2 ."

    According to edmunds - yes look to the right - they potentially can have 3 with this new rig.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,896
    Sorry Billy...been traveling for work....sorry it took awhile to respond. Never looked too close to,the back seat of the S4. Big trunk. The whole x4 series is bigger than what I was used to. I was astounded at its smoothness....smoothness of engine, trans (S-Tronic...which is a real gem of a trans) and the total operation of everything. In addition to excellent handling, the ride is really good. Add to that, it's a fast, fast car.

    I want someone in my family to buy one. Trying to talk my GF into buying one, as a matter of fact!
  • billyperksiibillyperksii Posts: 198
    Actually, I went to the Audi dealer last Friday just to look at the A6 Premium Plus with either the 18 or 19 inch Sport Package and Cold Weather Package. What a surprise- non in stock-not even a single color combination. Anyway, the sales guy or should I say runner brought around a Premium Plus Non Sport for the test drive. I have to say that this car is fast for the weight its pulling. I was totally impressed with the handling because the test route was real twisty and sales guy kept insisting to push the car to its limit. Bottom line I like the car especially in the Dynamic(aka Sport) settings, very very enjoyable and the grunt was there at the bottom and at the top of tach. Here is what I dont like-the PRICE.
    There is absolutely no value in buying this car over TL-SHAWD. For what you get without starting to adding in the options is just outright absurd. In my opinion, this is a nice 45K car- Premiun Plus Trim, I would put the Prestige at 53K. Dont get me wrong now- I like the car but I think its overpriced.

    PS- Nice Dealership experience, the S4 I sat in, not pratical for me, way too tight in rear.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,896
    edited June 2012
    billy....that supercharged V6 in the Audi is really, really sweet. A6 is beautiful. I kind of compare those German marks like the A6, E350, BMW 535i to the TL SH AWD. That's what makes the Acura so appealing. It gives you 85% of those for about 20% less cost.

    I'm still smitten with the S4....and that's coming from a 335i owner.

    I think if you just add the driver selectable driving modes, with the torque vectoring to the options list, you come in just under $50K MSRP. Maybe buy it for $48K? That's for a Quattro, with 333HP, one of the sweetest sounding engines I've ever heard, running acceleration times near muscle car territory.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Those other luxo sedans, are in a whole other league than these Ellpses. The 535 for example has a level of refinement not available int the g or TL. With tech not available in either.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,428
    Sometimes people cross-shop categories as the prices overlap (optioned 335 is well into 528). Also, some pople may be able to afford a 60K+ luxo sedan, but they don't mind saving 10-20 grand, if the price is right and get lower level. Graphic was basically making a point he'd rather keep the money and get TL, as those additional refinements are not worth the money to him. However, I agree that for purpose of this discussion, it is not really as relevant if 535 or A7 are good, bad or OK for the money. Their buying audience, while having some overlap, is not really the same.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,896
    dino....that's exactly my point. KD.....you get to a point of diminishing returns. Aside from the styling of the TL (which I happen to like), I think it would have been a category killer, if it had a prettier face.

    I'd be the first to admit that Acura (and Honda overall) has had a bit of an identity crisis the past few years. But, I think you could have said that about all the Japanese marks...even Toyota with their aspirations to be the biggest car company in the world didn't turn out so well for them. The tsunami only added fuel to the fire.

    Hondas and Acuras are really good cars. However, most are used to them being great cars. Frankly, if I were one to keep a car for 200K miles (which I'm definitely not), my first stop for shopping for one would be my local Honda or Acura store.

    It really is impressive what less than $40K (real world price) buys if you take a test drive of an Acura TL SH AWD.
  • billyperksiibillyperksii Posts: 198
    Graph- My Acura dealer is houding me to take a test drive on the advance trim, not really intrested but if I find some time I probably will.
    My car only has 16K miles, he mentioned a buyout but I know some of the cost would be transferred to me. I am happy with the 09 TL TECH AWD,the car looks, drives and smell new.

    The S4 no longer sports the V8, its a v6 Turbo.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,111
    The S4 is actually supercharged even though the badge says: "3.0 T"

    I happen to like the TL SH-AWD styling & price for that matter. Electric power steering is a deal breaker for me though.

    Still loving my 328xi;)

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,428
    TL may as well be their best offering in terms of the value. However, it looks that their immediate future offerings (ILX) are just taking turn for the worse. Seeing specs and pricing of ILX, it reminds me Saab 9-2X, which as we all know was dressed-up Subaru Impreza. The base version was identicanl to base Impreza and it had something like 5 grand premium, absolutely ridiculous. The Aero (dressed WRX) has a slightly smaller differential. They did offer some extras, like leather seat, better wheels, and (I think) sunroof, but at additional price. It was such a disaster that they ended up discounting the thing at levels BELOW Subaru street pricing.

    I know, ILX is much more separated from Civic, but the price premium over Civic is absolutely shocking. It is basically improved top of the line Civic at price of fully loaded Accord :sick: . What adds insult to injury, is that Civic itself is also acknowledged as underwhelming and underdelivering. I add my own experience with a rental Accord (base version) - a car I would put at bottom of my shopping list if I were in midsize market (obese floating barge with subpar interior). I see a seriously struggling company that is trying to live of its former glory (GM everybody?).

    If Acura keeps going that path, they will be thrown into oblivion, even if the cars themselves are actually good. They seem to be misreading the market (or in general), threir brand cache. It may be just me, but there is something in it, if the Civic will go for facelift just one year after introduction. It is not all lost - Subaru had terrible start with new WRX (this was a textbook example of losing your way), but they listened and fixed it right away. Hope Honda will, too. But Acura seems all but finished in sedan world, even with their good TL.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    If I could afford an M5, I would be driving one. At twice the price of my G is it twice the car? I guess it depends on what you value about the M5 vs the G (or TL or whatever).

    On another topic, the TL doesn't get any respect:
    - sales are lagging
    - doesn't seem to win many comparos
    - CRs favorite ellps is the G
    - etc

    Don't know why that is.
  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524
    Graphic when it comes to buying the Mid Level Euro cars over the likes of the M37 or TL, it comes down to Emotion (how the car makes you feel) and how well the car responds. The TL (super duper AWD) is a nice car, it is comfortable and one can do a 800 mile day in it and not feel tired. But for me there is no emotion in the car, no soul. This is where the Germans excel there is a certain feel they have that no other car manufacture can reproduce. That is why people like myself, keep going back to a German car over anything else. Its like the saying the Harley guys have, "If I have to explain it, then you wouldn't get it." This is so true, and true about anything.. I love Ducati Motorcycles, I currently have 3 of them. I want another, but no room in the garage. I can buy a Honda CBR1000RR that is faster in a straight line then my Ducati 916, but the engine note, the way it builds power the handling and the looks all invoke a certain emotion that no other motorcycles has ever had.. I have ridden and raced MANY motorcycles but none have moved me like Ducati's do.

    BTW, if you want an experience of a outstanding engine note, drive a S5 or S6 with a V10 !!!
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