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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,897
    If you can't tell the differnece in quality by just sitting in a TL versus sitting in a Kia, then maybe you should be driving a Kia cause you would be satisfied with the cheap leather and the trinkets. The steering and suspension may suck on the Kia but gotta love that heated steering wheel. I miss that soooo much on my car.......NOT.

    I'm not really a fan of Cadillac or GM for that matter, but what is so boring about the new ATS? It looks like a baby CTS and I've never heard the CTS described as boring. A lot of other things, but not boring.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,052
    Good points- problem with alot of the anti caddy (or anything non BMW or Audi) posters its all about the Germans - they continue to boast about the great BMW any always bash with out any real substance behind it. The 1 or 2 mpg difference, or the size - come on guys it comes down to pricing -value should be considered - that's why consumer reports continues to rank the g (it's now in its 6th year as the number one car in the class). I have not priced this new caddy out but if it's priced right it should be considered. I love the boring comments - look at the cars on the right - the tsx is an accord, hello
  • billyperksiibillyperksii Posts: 198
    Not literally boring- just same old same old.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,897
    The way I look at these cars is that they all have their attributes which attract certain types of buyers(driving enthusiusts if you must). The Germans have great styling that stands the test of time and great suspensions. I would have added steering but not so much anymore. Japanese have great engines, cheaper TCO and nice bells and whistles. The Americans have good cars in this field and getting much better IMO and are kind of a combo of the Germans/Japanese. Regardless of what Hyundai/Kia is doing lately they don't really particpate that well in this field given their crappy suspensions, steering, and handling in general and cheaper(but flashy) ingredients. To some handling the curvies is more imporant than straight line power and to others the opposite and then some like a little of both. None are wrong and none are absolutely right!

    I know I forgot Volvo but are they Swedish or Chinese?...I'm not sure now. I probably missed something else too. Anyway, they all have things that are more important to the individual so to put one down because it doesn't fit into one's personal "vision" of a great ELLPS is silly.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,896
    Yeah....Cadillac has been hyping this car for awhile. The biggest issue with them, they've been touting their "BMW" killers for awhile now. Until very recently, they were anything but.

    Maybe this car changes that perception, maybe not.

    I've driven the CTS Coupe. It's a nice effort. Would I trade my BMW for it? Nope! I don't know what it is, Cadillac has the sort of "feel" that doesn't impress me (actually, all GMs have that "feel"). If the CTS didn't WOW me away from the BMW, I doubt the ATS will, either.

    That doesn't make it a bad car. I think it may sell well. But, those sales will go to people who wouldn't look at a BMW/Audi/Mercedes to begin with. The ATS will most likely capture the Buick owner (or maybe the Chevy person). Maybe that's exactly what GM wants. Their gateway car (Chevy) customers staying in the family, moving up (Buick) and finally to their top cars....Cadillacs.
  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524
    edited July 2012
    M6, Caddy has building the hype for this car for a while, saying that the ATS will be able to overtake the 3 series and its build in the US. The only engine that was ever talked about was the turbo 4 and how much more power it makes over the BMW as well as price. Now come to find out there are 3 engines, and the starting price is less then the BMW, however, if you want the Turbo 4 the starting price is slight less then the base 3, the performance is less then the BMW, and the Caddy has a 6 speed auto and the BMW has an 8 speed auto, you can only get a manuel in the turbo 4 in the caddy all others is an auto (if memory serves me, this is a deal breaker for many of you.)

    Stick, the 335 is more then .5 sec quicker then the V6 ATS, and the ATS has more power. Also caddy hasn't released the 1/4 times yet either, I'm suspecting that the BMW's will be faster there too.

    I was hoping for more from the ATS, since with all it's hype that GM has been generating, but the performance numbers so far haven't been all that good for the kind of HP the car is making...
  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524
    Graphic all the hype has been taking owners away from BMW, that wont happy. I have rented a couple of CTS sedans and the interior space feels cramped to me, more so then a 3 series, so not too sure how the ATS is going to fare there. If the bigger brother is feels smaller, then the smaller ATS will be smaller..
  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524
    M6, I am far from an Anti Caddy person, in fact In the last month I have been trying to sway my partner to go look at the Buick LaCrosse, so far that hasn't been easy to do, and he is from Detroit.

    For the past 4 months I have waited for the ATS to be released and with more information, however, the hype I think was greater then what GM could product the first time out. Look how long it took caddy to get the CTS where it is today? I like the CTS, but not too sure how GM can say that the CTS is in the same league as an A6, 5 series or E class.... On paper it does, but the translation from paper to product didn't happen very well. I think the same thing is going to happen with the ATS.

    Regarding Kia and Hyundai the current crop of high end luxury cars is just the start, I bet they will get their cars dialed in faster then GM will.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,897
    I seem to recall a number of posters on this thread infering that 0-60 times weren't that important when a certain someone was relating how the G37 is so much faster 0-60 than the 3. Oh well, I guess when it fits one's argument it does matter. I could care less about the ATS and also don't care if a car is stick or auto, but I still say it's sad that so called auto enthusiusts are so close minded when a new car comes out and trash it before it's even been thoroughly tested or doesn't fit a particular mold. It's sad really.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,052
    edited July 2012
    M6 the name is sweendogy- Not certain someone. The elephant in the room- the guy who makes this channel work by posting relevant topics, thus causing discussion. (see above) Sure people don't agree with me, but I don't make up "points" - before I post I do homework.

    And I agree the german bias argument is old, sad, and it's rude. They make great cars but so do others - plus German cars come at a sizable premium. Remember this is Ellps- and if 50k is the new EL - I might be going Kia soon.

    The Tsx is still on the board- and according to c&d this caddy is a real player.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,896
    The Caddy that really interests me is the CTS-V. But, now you're talking about hitting that $70K range, where a lot of nice iron resides.

    So, it's not like they don't have any models that catches my eye.

    FN...rented a CTS coupe during an out of town business meeting. Was it nice? Yeah! Was it something I'd plop my own money down for? Not hardly.

    Like you, I always considered the CTS to be the competition for the 3 or A4 or C Class. Cadillac touted it as competition for the 5, A6 or E class. That doesn't make it true, though. So, now Cadillac is saying the ATS is the competitor for the 3, A4, C? We'll see.

    Once they show up at Hertz, I'll give one a spin.

    It scares me more than a little to see the complicated electronics in the ATS and realize this was a the brain child of GM. It could just as easily be a catastrophe for them as it would be a success.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,476
    I have driven a couple of CTS-v sedans.
    They have good points, IMHO.
    TQ from that S/C V8 is one.
    If an ATS-v is available when the lease runs out
    on the BMW I am driving, I will at least test one.
    - Ray
    TQ junkie . . .
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,896
    ray...I'd do the same. If they would come out with an ATS-V, at a price that fits, I'd certainly check it out. I don't know if they could shoehorn a Camaro SS motor in it, though (which is what I'd like to see).

    I don't know if the ATS is AWD, RWD, FWD, or a combination.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,052
    So to get BMW lovers to "consider" a car non BMW it must have 45o hp and fit a price level, a bmw can have an old 6 and 230 Amd cost in the mid 40s and Do no wrong. Snob factor just hit it's highs The initial reviews have been very good see another below.

    http://www.stltoday.com/classifieds/transportation/reviews/cadillac-ats-it-sure-- beats-playing-golf/article_b2e28cdb-2bba-53cb-80c0-e9e1b7449d16.html
  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524
    Graphic, like you I'll rent the ATS a couple of times, and get about 300 to 400 miles in them, not the typical 15 mile test drive. I have been looking for a XTS to hit the lots so far no go, even in Detroit National hasn't had them yet.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,476
    Given the weight I anticipate for an ATS-v,
    I would probably not require 450 HP.
    My BMW 3 has 320 HP and 370 TQ.
    Something in the 350-400 HP range would be something
    I would ‘consider’.
    And more TQ = better, for me.
    There will be other factors I’ll consider.
    But that’s just me.
    - Ray
    BMW lover – and snob, I guess . . .
  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524
    M6, I truly hope the ATS is a success, I have never said other wise, in fact my partner and I have been waiting to build one, a FWD Turbo 4 Performance with manual and the options I like can be had for 42K. I wish I could compare that build ATS with a 2013 328i with the options I would want on it, I' thinking they will come out about the same price or close to it. But when it comes down to the hype, the ATS has fallen short, 270hp should be better then what GM has posted for the 0-60. Same can be said about the V6.

    I forgot who posted it, but I do not think the ATS will pull people out of their 3 series, but it will allow people who have a chevy or maybe a Buick into the Caddy showroom and upgrade to the ATS. Time will tell and again I hope the ATS is a success.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,897
    The following is from a blog post from Inside Line. Just for conversation.

    "The most reliable rumor-mongers have the ATS-V getting the same direct-injection, 5.5-liter, fifth-generation small-block V8 that's going into the C7 Corvette. If that naturally aspirated engine comes in around 460 hp, it would put the ATS-V a comfortable 100 ponies behind the supercharged 6.2-liter small-block V8 in the CTS-V. Throw in a choice of new manual or automatic seven-speed transmissions and it all sounds delectable."
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,476
    'a FWD Turbo 4 Performance'
    I thought RWD or AWD were the only 2 options here?
    - Ray
    Possibly confused....
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,601
    RWD and AWD are the only options for the CTS. And the manual is only available on the RWD so I have not idea what FN built on the site.
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