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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans



  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Yup, that's usually how it is...

    But....I don't think you need to (or should) go as far as to "settle" for your third (or worse) choice of color and options if you plan ahead and are willing to do the other three things.

    Acura makes it easy. Limited "trim" choices and color choices with almost no options to begin with. Find a dealer with a big inventory that has great deals. Other brands, with long option lists, are a little tougher. But, my recent experience with BMW proved to me that custom ordering from a dealer - which I always assumed meant paying a higher price than taking a car off the lot - may in fact produce the best results, long term. We had to shop around to a dozen or more dealers to find one that still had allocation spots for a 2012 X5d, but in the end, found one willing to negotiate a price that was within a few hundred (compared to invoice) of the best deal we could have gotten for a "leftover" vehicle on the lot. But, by ordering to our exact specs, we also didn't get stuck with a few options we didn't want, which ended up putting us ahead in the end.

    If and when I get another "fun" car, I will in all likelihood order a Porsche rather than take one of the lot. Trying to find my color and option preferences, given the ridiculous list of choices from Porsche, is a near fruitless exercise. And I'd rather shop around for a dealer willing to give me a 6-7% discount on a custom order than compromise my preferences to take a car off the lot (like I did in 2005) at a 11% discount, but one that had a lot of options that I didn't want and didn't have a couple that I now know I would like.

    A friend of mine who used to work for Audi (corporate, not dealer) indicated that, even though Audi is achieving record sales and many dealerships are low on inventory, you can still order one at or below invoice due to incentives and their desire to continue to increase sales vs. BMW and Mercedes.

    There is a saying in my business (real estate development) that a great deal on a fair property is not as good as a fair deal on a great property. For my friend that got lucky with a 535i manual transmission, he got the best of both worlds. But for most of us, I think I'd rather shop really hard for the car I wanted, and not be stuck with my third or fourth choice color and the wrong options for the next 6-7-8+ years.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,896
    hclll....most of the regulars here already know what I own. But, I drive an '11 335ix coupe, while the girlfriend drives an Audi S4 (majorly juiced A4). I'm 5'10" and 190 lbs. The girlfriend is 5'3" and about 125 lbs. I actually find her Audi to be more comfortable and easier to see out of than my 335i. She drives my car as much as she drives her car (and vice versa). I've never heard her complain either way....although, I'm glad both cars have memory seats.
  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524
    The V8 in the Vette I own as well as current Vettes are what makes the car. NOt too sure what you mean by, Play games with the gear ratios? Drop it down to 3rd, and watch most car disappear in the rear view mirror. Remember, according to some, only real car enthusiasts gets manuals! I really liked my Vette, however, mine must have been a Monday car, as it wasn't screwed together very well...
  • I am coverting my fog lights to HID and I wanted to know if I need"RELAY HARNESS" to do this?
    I ordered the kit yesterday so I am still in the dark about these RELAYS.
    Remember, this is for a 2009 TL AWD.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 13,587
    being able to wait should eliminate the settling issue.

    The internet makes it real easy to shop around. In a fe minutes, I found the dealer that seems to be hoarding all the ones we want (first choice color and interior). They have 3, no one else seems to have any! But, they are about 2 hours away.

    so my choice now is, take a ride, or just wait for a local dealer to get one.

    of course, the far away guy is also way lower on price.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    edited August 2012
    What I meant was that, in order to achieve respectable EPA highway ratings for the Corvette, GM made the final (two, I believe) gear ratios so tall that they are effectively idling at 65 mph and don't play any part in the use of the car as a sports car - i.e. what you basically have is a 4-speed manual with 2 overdrive gears. And that, for a variety of reasons, just doesn't appeal to me as something I would ever claim was great engineering. At least when Porsche decides to add a tall highway ratio like they did this year, they put it in as a 7th speed and leave the first 6 as before and perfectly matched to the engine output.

    I don't want to turn this into a GM bashing string, but here's what I see when I look at "precision engineering":

    Z06 Corvette vs. 911S
    7.0 liters vs. 3.8 liters
    505 hp vs. 400 hp
    470 ft.lbs vs. 325 ft.lbs
    15/24 EPA vs. 18/27 EPA
    Slower vs. faster acceleration (to 60-100)
    Slower vs. faster around "The Ring"
    Higher vs. lower top speed (in 4th vs. 6th)
    $76,000 vs. $96,000

    You can essentially do the same comparison for the ZR1 vs. 911 Turbo.

    I don't dispute that the Corvette is a lot of raw performance for the money. I just think that it appeals to those that prefer "raw" to refined. Everything is done by increasing the quantity - engine size, tire size, etc. And they still fall short of the 911 on everything that matters to me for a nimble handling high performance sports car. The fact that a 911S or Turbo costs $20-30k more than the comparable Corvette model may make them "expensive" to some, but I'd rather have the "cheap" 911S than the $15k more expensive ZR1 any day. I'm not going to be too disappointed that I am a few tenths slower in the quarter mile or a few MPH short in top speed. At least I will have a car engineered to get the absolute most out of less, and is "screwed together" very well. (Something that I am also going to consider when I cast my presidential vote this fall). :)
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,052
    "No thanks, and no offense, but the Corvette is, in many ways for me, the epitome of GM's screwed up engineering. "

    sounds like a ringing endorcement for the brand to me..

    while I agree the higher ("expensive") priced 911 is a better all around car-- its still considerably more "expensive"-

    couple of questions- i see you used a select use of comparion data- why the select group, ie no 0-60?.. other question is the "" around expensive- whats that supposed to mean?? a 25% premium (w/o options) from one car to the other, when comparing such cars seems regular, no "" expensive to me
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I was making reference to 0-60 in my "faster acceleration to 60 and on up to 100+/-" I know you are a stickler for hard data, but to be honest, I'm going off of memory of comparison tests by R&T, C&D, etc, whereby the Corvette had considerably difficulty starting from a standstill without spinning its wheels. I do know the new 911S has been independently tested at 3.7 seconds to 60, but would have to do some research to get a reference. Same is true for the turbo, which at 2.8+/- was the second fastest (0.1 behind the Veyron) ever tested. Not that any of this matters to me personally. Anything under about 4.5 is more than I need or care to pay for.

    Which brings me to the "expensive" quotes. I respect that for some people, $75k is expensive and for others $135k isn't so much so, compared to the $2 million plane they are eyeballing. I am a heck of a lot closer to the former than the latter. But for me, a $96k 911S (the cheaper Porsche) would be far more rewarding to drive and own than the $110k ZR1 (most expensive Corvette). Hell, knock the "S" off the 911 and save another $12k and it wouldn't change my mind.

    I just don't find the GM engineering of the Corvette is particularly inspiring or compelling. Not that I'm a German snob and don't think the U.S. is capable of it - in fact, I have a deposit on a Tesla Model S and may very well be driving my first American car in 25+ years by next February.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,052
    "I have a deposit on a Tesla Model S and may very well be driving my first American car in 25+ years by next February. "

    that being said, what are you doing in the ELLPS chat talking mpgs in the MDX?

    please limit the use of quotes in your response :D
  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524
    The interesting thing about the Vette v 911 is the person who is shopping a Vette isn't shopping for a 911, they are completely different cars. The Vette rings America, Big V8, baritone exhaust tone, flat torque curve. Now while the Vette is "idling" at 65 the car does pick up speed nicely while in 6th gear.

    Your argument is interesting, however, one needs to remember, when cruising along the highway, why does the car need to be revving at 3K. The owner just has to go down to 3rd gear and be gone.. Not a hard thing to do.

    Price a base model vette can be had for 45K, while the base price 911 is 86K. Not too sure if the extra money is worth the extra performance.
  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524
    After months of looking and driving and fretting over a car, my partner FINALLY decided on one. Now, it's not a BMW, or Audi, or MB nor is it a Infiniti. However, the Infiniti M was scratched off his list very early. After an interesting week in Charlotte on my way home (have to love WiFi while flying) my partner tells me he finally chosen a car and will tell me about it after he picks me up at the airport. So for the next 3 hours I was trying to figure out what it was, so upon arriving in phoenix I narrowed it down to 3, Hyundai Genesis 3.8, Ford Taurus (eco boost 2.0L, 2013) and lastly VW Passt SE TDI. Not too sure why I thought the Hyundai but I did.. After getting my check bagged, I meet him at the usual spot on on the north side arrival by entrance 8. He is hungry, I'm not, had a good dinner on the flight but went out anyhow. So after a few conversation about things that happened with both us, I told which car he decided on... I get this look and reaction, "how in the hell did you know..." I laughed, but wasn't too sure which one, but had to guess again, so I went with the Hyundai, Genesis, turned out not to be the V6, but the V8 4.6. So at dinner he explained why he went with it and it all makes sense.... He loves cars, but not in the same sense as I do, he doesn't drive his cars hard at all...

    MSRP, $45,798, sale price $37,990, it is a 2012, White with Cashmere leather interior, and for 2012 all 4.6L Genesis came fully loaded. Granted it doesn't handle like a BMW, or have the "bling" of the MB or the style of Audi, but what it does have is VALUE... We picked the car up on Sat, and drove up to Prescott, AZ. Have to save, was impressed with the dealership and how smoothly the transaction was and how the salesman went over every item on the car with Rick. I was impressed with how it drove, seats are very comfortable, and handled the mountain roads with no issue. My partner likes BMW's and Audi's, but he couldn't justify the price of a 528 or A6 and he doesn't tackle the round abouts (or jug handles as they are called in Jersey) like I do, but he wanted all the luxury and room in the back seats for his clients. So the out the door price was just little over $40K, not too sure how anyone could pass up this deal (Yes I know some of you would without thinking twice.) The same dealer has a couple of Equus they had one on the showroom, MSRP $61,000, sale price $50K...
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,052
    Good stuff- who would of thought a Korean auto maker could be cross shopped against the Germans and gain a sale- huge strides for the company as a whole - enjoy the rig
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Interesting, my marketing director is seriously considering the Equus as a replacement for her E-class. Her priority is luxury and space, as she often is driving clients around and, according to her, the Equus has a back seat that is closer to an S class than an E class in size and comfort. Her husband, a retired Navy pilot and much more of a driving enthusiast, couldn't be pried out of his older generation M5 with a crowbar. When he drove the Equus, he picked it apart relative handling, braking and precision relative to the German alternatives. But she's looking at the comfort, space and VALUE - and willing to give Hyundai a chance. Plus the dealer is willing to give her the car for an entire week to test drive.

    My guess is that the Equus will get a few more Infiniti and Lexus buyers to consider it than Audi or BMW buyers, but either way, Hyundai has come a long way since those shaky early years.
  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524
    As I posted My partner looks at value first and foremost., this is his car, now if I had a say, the car of choice would have been a 550i, and I would have made up the difference for him. One thing people need to remember is, when Infiniti and Lexus hit our shores, the mindset was the same, who would shop a Japanese car and MB...
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,111
    Congrats on the new ride! Best of luck to you with it! A V8, RWD, sedan for $40K is a good deal! Keep us informed of how you like it!

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524
    While at the dealership picking up the car, I sat in the Equus and the first thing that came to my mind was, space, front seat and backseat has lots of it. After speaking to a salesmen for the Equus (not all Hyundai salesmen can sell the Equus) Hyundai brought that car over here to show that it is serious about luxury cars. In Korea people who have them have a driver, the owner doesn't drive them. It is an interesting car..

    For the money, the Genesis have plenty of room in the back (more then an E Class) and has all the bell's and whistles then a base E class has.

    So far reliability hasn't been a problem for either car which is something that MB and at times BMW can not say. So it should be interesting to see how well this car holds up.
  • The edgy-cool styling of the Hyundai's is starting to look a little dated. It is not classic styling that lasts but for a few years - often the problem with Asian designs, more derivative than creative. Good deals for the people who are into the moment and in that price range though.
  • Not Acuras- they stand the test of time. :)
  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524
    Interesting, since the Genesis sedans aren't edgy in design but very much conservative.
  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524
    They gave him more on his trade in then I figured they would, so over all it was a great deal...
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