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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,744
    While I'm sure that ATS looked nice, at $54K? No thank-you.

    I agree that $54K is a bit of a stretch for the ATS but you can option out a 3 series to almost $60K. I'm going to say that the ATS will do very well in the $35-40K price range

    The enthusiast mags are already saying the 3 has some serious competition in terms of driving dynamics. But the badge snobs will still flock to the 3 because of the roundel. Personally I'm not interested in driving what my neighbor's 25 yo live at home kid is leasing. I like to be noticed in something different.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,590
    Rob, the magazine's always say something like that when they aren't doing a comparison, on their own each might be a great car, but once you get the competition together the faults of each car are easy to see. I hope the ATS does well, competition only makes for a fun time and better products.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,590
    Habitat- the Escalate is just a suburban with bling, nothing extra was done to it and of course weren't built very well, can't use that as a comparison to a German built car.

    The reason why we got the Genesis at the price is the 2013 are rolling in, end of year, all manufactures are doing this, even BMW (with the 5 series). Currently here in Phoenix, BMW is offering $4500 off options (not too sure which option package they are referring to) plus $3K.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,412
    And I agree with you that a mid to high $50 something thousand dollar 3 series is absurd as well. Much of the 3's "advantages" may be gone as well due to electric power steering & suspension softening.

    While it is true that 328xis are EVERYWHERE, especially silver ones like mine, the E90 is still an absolute blast to drive. I welcome the competition as well. The ATS looks nice, the next IS should be more competitive, the next G will probably make all of us BMW nuts think twice before a return trip to our local dealer.

    When my lease is up in 2 years, I don't think I'll be shopping in this ELLPS category anyway.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,744
    Rob, the magazine's always say something like that when they aren't doing a comparison, on their own each might be a great car, but once you get the competition together the faults of each car are easy to see. I hope the ATS does well, competition only makes for a fun time and better products.

    You're right - until the 2 are compared side by side, it's all speculation. But if the worshipers of the temple of BMW say it has a chance...

    I too look forward to some competition for the 3 series. It's a great car but IMHO getting a little soft.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I too look forward to some competition for the 3 series. It's a great car but IMHO getting a little soft.

    Or....is it just that the 3 series has gotten too big? The current 3 series nearly as big (and heavy) as the 5 series from a few generations ago. And the current 5 is nearly as big as the 7 series was a few generations ago. Want small and nimble, a little one series, that seems tiny by today's standards, is not much smaller than a 1990 vintage 3 series.

    The 3 series can still be made to be tight, as was proven to me as I rode in the backseat of a 4-door M3 being driven by a BMW instructor at their track last week. But look at the relatively low percentage of 335i's that are equipped with manual transmissions today, let alone sport packages and suspensions. I don't think BMW has gotten soft by their own preference - rather it's more the result of their objective to increase sales and, as such, having to cater to a lower common denominator when it comes to American buyers. Frankly, I wish they'd just tell the softee buyers to pound salt and buy a Lexus. But then again, I'm not a BMW shareholder.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,590
    I do hope the ATS is as good as what Cadillac has been saying in their commercials, however, history has proven that they have been short every time... I'm looking forward in driving a ATS and XTS, once national rental car gets them in, next week I'm back in Detroit so I'm hoping they have gotten the XTS.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,744
    I do hope the ATS is as good as what Cadillac has been saying in their commercials, however, history has proven that they have been short every time...

    I'm more interested in what the reviewers say as they get the most seat time in every car.

    As for what Cadillac says in the ads....I've never seen any advertiser say "Hey our product is mediocre."
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,590
    Bill did u own a Vigor when it was new?
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,590
    Rob, I'm talking about history, and even on Cadillac web page they say it is better then a 3 series... I just hope that history doesn't repeat itself.
  • Why is this directed at me IVAN?
    FWIW, I agree with the Australian CEO.
  • I think I was still in high school but my older brother best friend had one and it was one sweet ride back then. Additionally, those name (VIGOR AND LEDGEND) catapulted the Acura brand. My sister's husband bought the Ledgend and that car was the talk of the town, I was aspiring to buy one.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,663
    Just because you agreed to the statement

    "As for what Cadillac says in the ads....I've never seen any advertiser say "Hey our product is mediocre."

    So I thought I'd point out where an employee (the top) made a public statement (which is sort of like an advertisement) saying their product was mediocre.

    btw...me too (agreeing with the CEO) :)
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,108
    Legend, integra and vigor - I agree totally made the brand "pop" certainly where I grew up in the urban jungle. (maxima another car, )

    Now they have the Acura tl-shawd advance package and a blump grill -
  • And they did away with names as numbers sound more prestigious... like the German makes.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 27,671
    We leased a Vigor in 1994... the last year... A loaded GS model.. It was my wife's car and we really liked it.. stickered for right around $29K

    5-cylinder, 172 HP... weak R134 A/C.. Killer lease deal (my first lease)..

    My aunt bought a new Legend in 1992... which is now sitting in my driveway.. 43K miles!! Original MSRP was $32,500..

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  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    A buddy of mine bought a Legend GS 6-speed manual sometime around 1994. Pretty interesting that BMW and Porsche (I believe) were still using 5-speed manuals at the time. Granted, it was still FWD, but for Acura, that may have been the pinnacle of their attempt to challenge the 5-series as the sport sedan leader.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 27,671
    I think in 1994, Acura was probably kicking BMW's butt... at least in sales...

    E34s weren't the most loved model that BMW ever came out with... and, then.. they had the Nikasil issues with the V-8 engines..

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