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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

1719720722724725860

Comments

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,106
    Flight you answered your own question- good stuff now you know why people would look at the g- it's performance and cheaper price and say- close enuf and the 15k I saved l
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,395
    Those 18 month leases were quite attractive. Infiniti put those out there because they had a lot of inventory & a lot of people with leases set to expire in the next 12 months or so. They know the new G isn't ready & the current G is toward the end of its model run. People lease because they like change & variety. Instead of losing a pool of potential customers to BMW, MB, Audi, Volvo, Acura... They get them into THEIR new car for another 18 months. They probably waived a few months of payments & reduced their customer's current payment on the same car. Hopefully in 12 - 18 months their customers will lease a new, more powerful, more efficient, G.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,395
    I always try to say "nice car" if I see a cool car filling up next to me at a gas station. Last week I pull in & right behind me is an '09 328xi. We got out of the car at the same time & he was looking at my car. I smiled & said "nice car." He said, "yeah, you too. I really like the Silver."

    I notice EVERYTHING about cars & saw as I was pumping 93 into my tank that he had selected 89 (mid grade). His car had the base (horrible looking IMO) 16" wheels that were on the '09s, he was fumbling with the windshield mounted GPS & it looked as if it hadn't been cleaned in 6 months.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,950
    I notice EVERYTHING about cars & saw as I was pumping 93 into my tank that he had selected 89 (mid grade). His car had the base (horrible looking IMO) 16" wheels that were on the '09s, he was fumbling with the windshield mounted GPS & it looked as if it hadn't been cleaned in 6 months.

    And your point is???
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,950
    edited September 2012
    So, for Rick, the Genesis came in first place when he overlayed his price vs attribute ( ie value) priorities

    Good point and is exactly what I was saying previously. The BMW may be #1 in a couple of categories which is MOST important to SOME ELLPS buyers. To many other ELLPS buyers the value equation may be more important. Long term reliability and repair frequency and cost are very important to me as I buy cars for cash and keep them for at least 6 years, some longer. I want a peppy, luxurious, smaller car that I don't have to have repaired frequently once the warranty is gone(or before for that matter) and I like a nice handling car but I don't need one that I can zip around the cloverleafs at 70mph....50 is fine thank you.

    So BMW can be #1 for some people but for many it is much farther down the list for a number of valid reasons. Nobody is arguing that it is not #1 in cutting corners. So to say a certain car is "loser" or always #2 is ridiculous as it is #1 to the thousands that buy it. And to also say that those same people cannot afford another few thousand dollars more is elitist to say the least and condescending at best.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,395
    These are BMW's primary customers, not enthusiasts like many if us here.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,395
    Excellent point. I agree 95% with what you say (I like taking the clover leafs @ 70:)

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • If you want numbers read Road and Track, if you want subjective and numbers Car and Driver. Subjective means a lot.

    The Japanese design their cars by numbers, start with a spec sheet and what comes out comes out and then looks great on paper.

    Anyone who drives one as well as a German or American car can tell you, there's loads of difference in how they drive and feel - even when the numbers aren't that different.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I agree. There are far more qualitative differences to performance and handling than raw numbers can represent.

    Should have clarified that what I don't care for is the "price/value" element of the rankings. I'm OK with subjective rankings that would say steering feel is a 10 on a 911 and a 3 on a Buick. I just don't want to see the Buick ranked 1st after "price consideration".

    Some of th magazines separate this adjustment out, so you can disregard it. Other's build it into their selection of a "winner" that I think is highly subjective and inaccurate at best, unethical at worst if they are vying for advertising dollars.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,098
    wireless, habitat.....agree with you both. I think as buyers, we all put different weights on specific parameters, regardless of what kind of car we're looking at.

    In any given price range, some put price above all other parameters. I'm not one of those. I want the best I can afford.

    That said, I've discounted buying some cars which others consider to be "tops" in their class. Mercedes immediately to mind. They cost roughly the same amount as an Audi or a BMW. But, they fall way short on the things I value most (performance and driving dynamics).

    I've tried hard to like Infinitis....over the course of many years. If, for no other reason, I could have saved myself a few bucks over what I end up buying. Even being less expensive than a 3 series or an Audi, they just don't appeal to me, for a variety of reasons.

    Obviously, they appeal to plenty of people, just not to me.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,822
    Did you recently buy a new car because the financing offer was too good to pass up? If so, a reporter would like to talk with you about your experience. Please contact pr@edmunds.com by end of day Tuesday, September 25, 2012 with a brief account of your purchase and your preferred contact information.

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  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,590
    It bugs me a bit when I see car magazines do a comparison of cars and mix subjective value factors into determining a "winner"

    I agree, give me the facts about the car, price should not determine a winner. Let the buyer (me) determine if the added price should sway me to look at other cars.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,106
    Sorry boys In a comparison test price must be included- as someone noted Have to compare Apples to apples - not 911s to buicks - Price is not subjective it's a matter of fact. Also important is where a car is classified by the manufacture- whos its target competition-
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I haven't seen too many 911 vs. Regal comparisons. Price is an objective fact, so go ahead and publish it. Just don't try to then extrapolate it into a subjective value analysis that will vary greatly buyer to buyer. Nimble handling and precise engineering mean a lot to me, maybe not so much to the next guy. We can each figure out how much we are willing to pay for it without having the reviewer pick a winner based upon price.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,106
    Objective fact-

    So if your Looking at a group of cars that are Ellps- an one costs 15k more then the next your telling me that should nt be part of the comparison?

    There is a reason the Camry and accord battle every year forks sold- they are so close in everthing - but if the accord was 10k more I guarantee you try would be a huge separation in sales.

    Not everyone has a tesla on order
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    edited September 2012
    I think we are going in circles. I didn't say that price shouldn't be listed/included in the review. I simply said I don't need a reviewer to pick a "winner" based upon his subjective assessment of value. I can determine what something is worth to me all by myself, thank you very much.

    If car and driver picked the Honda Accord as a winner over the Genesis because they didn't think the extra features of the genesis were worth the added price, would flight's partner have changed his decision? It doesn't matter what they think those features are worth, it's what he thinks they are worth. Why insult somebody who has different value priorities by labeling their choice a "loser" based upon yours?
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,106
    Ok so they should just compare 2 cars but have no conclusion.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,950
    I think you're confusing "loser" with a car coming in 2nd or 3rd. I don't think you would call someone that gets a silver or bronze medal a loser. They just weren't the best for the readership the magazine thinks/wants to attract. Usually these comparison tests are biased towards evaluation criteria that may or may not be the most important aspect for a lot of readers. I don't buy my cars based on which one came out first in any comparison so I don't lose much sleep worrying about it.

    These mags are in business to make money. People buy and read them for their professional opinions good or bad. If you don't want opinions don't buy the mags or visit the websites and just download the specs from the manufacturers. Life is constant weighing of cost versus reward and the vast majority of people that read these comparisons, IMO, are looking for opinions on value among all the other things.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,590
    Sweeny when it comes to ELLPS it is a different category of buyers then those who buy Camry's and Accord. The buyers of the Camry and Accord are looking for the BEST deal around, I remember reading that the average income of the Camry and Accord and Altima buyer was roughly 75K, when it comes to 3 series, A4, C class the average income is roughly 150K/yr.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,950
    The buyers of the Camry and Accord are looking for the BEST deal around,

    I guess you mean the cheapest by your comment without regard to which is a better car. The Camry is usually not the cheapest alternative in this class of cars and since it's still the biggest seller I guess the majority are NOT looking for the BEST deal in regards to price but also consider other factors. Just because someone earns less doesn't mean they don't care about what they drive and how it drives. They just have less choices.
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