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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans



  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    edited October 2012
    That's why they're building it. They're giving North America exactly what it wants. :mad:

    That's why I drive 20 year-old cars...
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    edited October 2012
    Oh yeah, I went to a DE day a couple of weeks ago and one of the guys in my run group had a 2007 335i. During our first session, I saw him leave the track after 4 laps. After the run, I asked what was wrong and he told me his car went into "limp mode."

    I know BMW corrected this in later model years, but I've never seen it in real life before. To think that this could ever happen to a BMW is just sad. Times have changed and the sports sedan is dead.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,708
    The BMW has a turbo 4.

    I figured BMW always used inline 6s so I didn't even ask about the engine. So what we need is a 335i to a 3.6 ATS comparison. Because that's what almost everyone's going to buy if they care about performance.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,052
    While I think the original poster of the ats vs BMW - selectively posted the article because he is a BMW lover - it was a good post to open up conversation. These cars are very close - like I said before maybe 2 close. Caddy must realize they should of undercut the mighty 3 in pricing, maybe gm is trying to subsidize the volt vs this. For guys to say the caddy would of win if it had the auto, or if they compared the bigger engine cars, or if both cars were the same color - look these comparisons will come down the rode so hold on to your hat.

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,432
    It's not domestic manufacturer's style. They always put out price unrealistic price and then cut it with rebates and dealer marketing support, so their customers feel like they're getting a great deal. The problem is with magazines taking that sticker at its face value.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,611
    Yet last week I drove a 2001 BMW M5 with 120,000 miles on the odometer that a friend just bought from the original owner. This car drives better, with fewer rattles, than any 2 year old Caddy sitting on your local dealer lot. The paint looks better than a brand new Caddy.

    That is true. But how will a 2013 BMW compare with a 2013 Cadillac in 10 years? Past performance is not always an indicator of future performance.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,125
    Just curious, did your friend tell you how much he paid for his well maintained example of an E39 M5?

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Past performance is not always an indicator of future performance.

    That's what keeps me showing up at the golf course trying to break par. But I'm not necessarily prepared to plop my money down on a GM product, hoping that they suddenly find the short grass when they have spent most of the last 40 years knee deep in the rough.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Something in the $20k range - higher than blue book, but it was in exceptional condition and owner just had full service and four new tires.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 16,911
    edited October 2012
    I know BMW corrected this in later model years, but I've never seen it in real life before.

    Oh, its pretty much a given on the N54 cars. But he didn't have to leave the track. Just back out of it for a half lap or so to let it cool off a bit. Still, it sucks. I have a larger oil cooler in the garage now that I have to get around to installing this winter. Being an '07, his might not have any factory oil cooler (depending on build date and sport or nonsport, I believe), which is even worse. The n54 cars without the oil cooler are just doomed at the track.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '08 Town&Country

  • Who -- at Infiniti -- said that Infiniti is happy where they are? I don't know any car company that would publically say something like that. Moreover, I think all car companies have financial objectives that they must meet or top management will be booted.

    Why would Infiniti be any "happier" than Cadillac or BMW or Audi, etc, at "staying where they are?"

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,052
    mark - you are correct in the statements... that statement and the one about the G37 manual is aimed at me.. just jabs, no knockout blows because they are baseless and completly off topic-
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,654
    I took the "happy" comment that they, Infinti, conceded in trying to reign-in the sports luxury crown from BMW, from various publications, and are instead concerned only with sales.

    Maybe with the theory: who cares who wins the comparisons if our sales (profit margin) are superior. It could be argued that BMW is also following this philosophy.
  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524
    Bill, no one said it outloud, however, look at what the G is on paper...

    G sits on Nissans FM platform, the engine sits behind the front wheels to help in balance, , a stout V6 engine makes 332HP, RWD, A pretty good formula to start with, not many sport sedans have this combo, but for some reason Infiniti falls short. Why is that? The chassis is stiff, but Infiniti for the last years just havn't been able to get the combo on, steering, ride, balance and feed back that BMW has been known for. To me it feels that Infiniti doesn't care really. I'm sure Nissan has taken apart many 3 series to see how all the parts work so well together.. Maybe in the next Gen Nissan will finally get all the parts to work together.
  • tdbmdtdbmd Posts: 20
    I love the S line Audis, but too much cash for me. I looked at them before settling on a lightly used CTS AWD.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,898
    Guess what, I don't think Infiniti is trying to clone a BMW 3. They want to compete in the class in their own way and probably don't give a hoot if they come in 2nd or not in the car mags as a long as their product is selling and is profitable. That doesn't mean they don't try to improve their product.

    IMO the G has some attributes that are better than the 3, nimble handling is not one of them. If that is the only thing you care about then the 3 is better for you. For many others the G is the actual better choice when they look at HP, off the line speed, technology, creature comforts, reliability, repair costs, bang for the buck, etc. I'm sure there are lovers of other makes like the ATS that makes it a compelling buy for them.

    BMW lovers seem to be so hung up on being number one that they get upset when anyone says that a vehicle even competes with them. You don't have to win the car mag writers comparos to compete in the class. Otherwise there would be just one brand as the rest would have folded up shop long ago.

  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524
    edited October 2012
    Interesting, I never talked numbers at all, just facts, on paper, the G should be a better car overall, so far this is not true. So your comment about BMW lovers was out of line. I haven't swallowed the kool-aid BMW has a ways to go to be the car company it was once, however, some manufactures are still trying to play catch up, and they might not be able to reach it.
  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524
    Reading these two magazine articles, that's the impression I took away about the Cadillac. The ATS will be a segment killer with a slushbox.
    Problem is there are people who do not believe in a sport sedan should have a slushbox, only a manual...
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,432
    You and what other five people? ;)

    Just check some reality - what couple of guys write on boards like those makes is not representative to the market sentiment. I see more manual transmissions in commercials than in dealerships. When I was on the market last year, I checked inventory of five BMW dealers around my house - at that time there was NOT A SINGLE MANUAL in 3-series inventory, sedan, coupe, or convertible. So get a grip, man. You, me, or whoever else thinks MT is a must, we don't matter. AT ALL. Zip, Nada. If it was up to the dealers, they would let the dogs on us for messing with their business.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,898
    Should have said "a lot of BMW lovers......" as obviously it is not all that are unaccepting of anybody even saying there may be another viable choice.
    Don't really know what you mean when you say that you "never talked numbers at all, just facts". Aren't numbers facts? Kind of cryptic. Lot of apparent opinions flying around here trying to be pawned off as facts though.

    See, when you say a lot of companies are trying to play catch up you are in affect saying that BMW is #1 in this class to all people and that every other manufacturer is trying to match BMW or "catch up". IMO they aren't. They are trying to compete in a "sports sedan class" profitably They reference the sportiness of the BMW driving experience as people are familiar with it but they don't try to copy the car itself.

    Don't know what you mean by "on paper the G should be better". What, is it not fast enough? Or luxurious enough? Or cost enough? Or have enough tech? Oh, maybe it's just the handling that isn't up to BMW standards? Could that be it? If so, that is just one measuremet. I'm not against BMW by any means. Just don't think they are the be all, end all.
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