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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

1726727729731732840

Comments

  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,895
    I'm sure they've contacted HR to find out who I am...

    Or the books! ;)
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,884
    laurasdada.....good for you. Your Jag sounds beautiful.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,480
    edited October 2012
    Thanks, I think it truly is. Unless, of course, you have to sit in the "back seats." Then, not so beatiful! But, to have them there for emergencies (and insurance co.!) is nice.

    After a lifetime of mostly sensible shoes (including a dark period of company cars: Olds 88, Mercury Sable, Dodge Intrepid... None bad, none memorable for any outstanding qualities. Maybe the styling of the Intrepid, but not the build quality or quietness), I was looking for something special. Something you don't see coming and going. And that had more than just skin deep beauty. Got it.

    Not mine, but similar:

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • buyabuya Posts: 74
    Sold mine. Still drove like new, but as scrap metal to a garage. Who else can take good care of that car and find a Jag enthusiast to take good care of it? Yup, you get people admiring your car out loud all the time.

    These days I'm looking at Japanese and Korean cars for simplicity of ownership. I guess I can still sense which car was mine if I sold it, even with 1000s of Asian cars on the road.

    Tesla is coming out with a nice looking EV. Worth being noticed by your EVPs.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,278
    I think we should add the Audi 5000 to the list. A guy had a 1980 Audi 5000 in pristine condition last weekend for a driving event in Southern California. He was actually able to keep up fairly well with modern Audi's, including an S6.

    Or are only "currently" sold vehicles allowed in here? :P
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    I seem to remember the 5000 being pretty quick, but only in "Park" with your foot on the brake pedal... :P
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    edited October 2012
    I seem to remember the 5000 being pretty quick, but only in "Park" with your foot on the brake pedal...

    Quick indeed! Porsche borrowed that Audi feature, re-packaged it as an option, and now calls it "launch control" in their 911's equipped with their PDK transmission. Although for some reason it doesn't work in "Park" anymore, you actually have to be in "Drive".

    Pretty amazing that Audi managed to stay afloat after all of the bad press and class action lawsuits. I had a business associate that bought an Audi 5000 just before the poop hit the fan and his pregnant wife demanded he sell the car less than six months later. Don't remember the exact figures, but he got less than half what he paid for it and it only had 3,000 miles on the odometer. Audi later sent him a $10,000 coupon to be able to use on a future purchase as a "sorry", but he let that expire and still hasn't been back to an Audi showroom since.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,278
    edited October 2012
    I'm amazed that American drivers that can't tell the difference between the gas pedal to the brake pedal have survived. A lot more amazed, than say from Audi surviving a Toyota Prius like scam on the highways by a scam artist looking for plublicity.

    Humans will forever blame their equipment and their machinery for their own human mistakes and errors.

    Early this year in the NFL a player went to spike the football right after catching a touchdown, and the football flew out of his hand so that he had an empty hand spike motion going on; what did he do? He looked at his gloves as if they were defective or going to be covered in baby oil. :P
  • What are you trying to say?
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,596
    Early this year in the NFL a player went to spike the football right after catching a touchdown, and the football flew out of his hand so that he had an empty hand spike motion going on; what did he do? He looked at his gloves as if they were defective or going to be covered in baby oil.

    That was Gronk - not exactly the sharpest knife in th drawer.
  • alltorquealltorque Posts: 535
    I think the thing to remember is that the North American market was a very small part of Audi's empire at the time of the alleged 5000 problem, (whether that was electro-mechanical, human stupidity - or worse), and probably still is. A poor name in one - at the time small market - doesn't mean a company is destined for the scrap heap, as evidenced by their continued success worldwide.

    Here in Europe I believe the 5000 was badged as a 200 and was highly regarded, i.e. the 100's big brother. I don't recall any similar incidents over here, at the time or since, with Audi cars. I don't drive an Audi; never owned one as I believe they are over-priced VWs in pretty dresses. I much prefer my VWs dressed as Skodas for many reasons, not just price but also better build quality and dealerships. However, Audi have been building fine cars for a long time and, if you must have the badge and are prepared to part with the money, then why not ?

    Interesting that Audi are a relative newcomer to the high-end market, (or any market), unlike Skoda who have been around for considerably longer and even survived the disaster that was East European Communism. The original Skoda Superb was a competitor for Rolls Royce et al in it's day. Try the Googly thing to see about it. The current Skoda Superb puts Audi to shame in the value department, (and quite a few others, also). But I doubt it's coming your way in the foreseeable future.............VAG aren't stupid. :)

    Just my two penn'orth on a grey Friday in Middle England. :cry: Have a great weekend.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,476
    I had a 5000 - 5-speed manual trans.
    - Ray
    Only experienced intended acceleration ...
    [ and rather leisurely, at that ]
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,895
    I assume you mean U.S. drivers so not to offend our brethern north and south of the U.S. borders. However, what you're referring to is not the fault of U.S. drivers, it's due to U.S. laws written by and for U.S. lawyers. :sick:
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,884
    Never drove one, but rode in one. Those 5000s were big (at least they seemed big to me, at the time). And, it was comfy.

    It was a business colleague who bought it. I remember the "unintended acceleration" snafu hit about 2 or 3 months after he bought it. Although, it was a good car for him, as he kept it for 7-8 years with no complaint, his resale was dismal, at best. He never went back to Audi, either.

    I too, am surprised Audi survived in North America after that. But, they soldiered on. And now, I'm sure Cadillac would love to have the reputation Audi has right now.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,480
    A grey Friday here in New England, too. But, the trees are bursting with color! The bad news, New York leaf-peepers appearing like locust :P

    Yeah, Robr2, Gronk. Big, dumb animal. Talented, though. Glad he is ours! Now, Tom just has to find him open more...

    Thought: While Fisker Automotive may or may not live to see the future they are trying to help shape, Henrik Fisker can certainly design an attractive car. Lexus (Toyota) should consider hiring him as a consultant to inject some coherent and attractive style to their lineup. The "spindle" grille ranges from innocuous to ghastly, depending upon the model it adorns. And, the slab-sided styling of their models grows ever more bland. Imagine combining the reliability, luxury and (with the new GS) somewhat new found sportiness with the style of a Karma, BMW Z8 or Aston Martin DB9? (Please leave Ian Callum at Jag, I look forward to the Marque's continue comeback). IMHO, of course.

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    edited October 2012
    I'm sure Cadillac would love to have the reputation Audi has right now.

    Yes indeed. Proves that Audi's "unintended acceleration" issue was easier to eventually overcome than than Cadillac's decades long issue of "unabated depreciation".
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,278
    I believe I saw Audi outsell Cadillac recently..... or am I imagining things?

    They continue to grow, advance, and head in the right direction moreso than other car manufacturers in my opinion.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    edited October 2012
    They continue to grow, advance, and head in the right direction moreso than other car manufacturers in my opinion.

    I'd generally agree, except they have a severe weight problem. Partly because all of their performance models are AWD, but also because they appear to think weight isn't an issue. You know, the "big is beautiful" denial syndrome. The Q7 is a half ton more than the Porsche Cayenne and not as big inside as the 700 lb lighter MDX. An Audi TT is about the same weight as a Porsche Cayman - with a water buffalo sitting in the passenger seat. BMW's 5 series has bloated up as well, but the Audi A6 is heavier yet.

    I think they need to add some calisthenic instructors to their engineering department.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,652
    An Audi TT is about the same weight as a Porsche Cayman - with a water buffalo sitting in the passenger seat.

    A baby buffalo?

    I see the TT only a couple hundred lbs over the Cayman; not too bad since its AWD and has a couple pretend seats for small children. 3153 lbs isn't that bad.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    edited October 2012
    3153 lbs isn't that bad.

    It is when it is attached to a their below entry level 211 hp engine. The fair comparisons are:

    Cayman S (320 hp) @ 2,976 lbs vs. TTS Coupe (265 hp) @ 3,219 lbs = +243 lbs; -55 hp
    Boxster S (315 hp) @ 2,910 lbs vs. TTS Roadster (265 hp) @3,394 lbs = +484 lbs; -50 hp
    911S Coupe (400hp) @ 3,075 lbs vs. TT RS Coupe (360 hp) @3,306 lbs = +231 lbs; -40 hp

    Porsche is redesigning the Cayman S along the lines of the new Boxster, so its weight is anticipated to drop another 80-100 lbs for 2013.

    Again, my point isn't that Audi doesn't make some great cars. They absolutely do. I particularly like the S5 and A7/S7. But the added weight (and AWD) makes Audi's so-called sports cars and sport sedans feel much less nimble than I would prefer. They get decent straight line performance, but, as Clint Eastwood might say, they have "trouble with the curves". At least in imparting the same kind of nimble feel and driving pleasure.

    Considering that my 1995 5 passenger Nissan Maxima SE tipped the scales at 3,001 lbs, I'd really like to see similar sized offerings by Audi and BMW try to stay in the 3,500 lb range. That gives them an extra 500 lbs for more safety equipment, stronger frame and chassis (although my Maxima was as solid at 150k miles as it was new), and techno do-dads. But 4,000 lbs for a mid size sedan is just too much, IMO. Hell, Porsche has now got their Cayenne down to under 4,400 lbs; surely they can lend a weight reduction engineer to Audi for a few weeks.
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