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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    edited December 2012
    Whatever happened to the down payment on that fisker ?

    It was a Tesla, and they still have it while I am contemplating my options. Get weekly e-mails reminding me that it's time to build my Model S. I don't think it will happen.

    I would also agree the chainsaw is a manly tool- prob more so then a boxer –

    Boxers are either dogs or shorts. But, IMO the new Boxster S is a lot manlier than the old model. On the other hand, the new Cayman S has got my complete, nearly undivided, attention. Play the video in this teaser (hit overview and scroll down to "video"):

    Porsche Cayman S
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    0-60 might be the worst reason to pick one car over another... I'd take a minimally-optioned Cayman S stick-shift over a Nissan GT-R

    I would agree. The new Cayman S is likely the best handling Porsche this side of a $400,000 Carrera GT. I am pretty much sold. Dealer here has offered me his first slot, to be delivered in April. Will likely pay full MSRP and maybe get a free Porsche logo hat thrown in. Ah well, I like a deal but I'd rather have this car.

    And If I cut my brains out in a chainsaw accident and wake up wanting to turn the Cayman into a Nissan GT-R, that can be done. Simply get a turbo kit that takes it to 480hp and throw 2-3 large farm animals in the hatch to take the weight up from 2,900 lbs to 2+ tons. In which case, you, Billy, Sweeny and everyone else here has authority to shoot me and put me out of my misery.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 16,897
    edited December 2012
    0-60 might be the worst reason to pick one car over another...

    Oh, come on. We can think of way worse reasons. :P

    To be perfectly honest, though, acceleration is near the top of my comparison list, but its obviously not the only yardstick.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '08 Town&Country

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,052
    Can't argue the passion for driving and wanting a great handeling manual trans sports car. The Gtr is in another class being a super car- the boxters are real nice drivers car. Good luck on the purchase but do me a favor and never pay list.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    The Gtr is in another class being a super car-

    Don't want to get too far off track here, but have you ever driven a GT-R? I have and other than flooring the accelerator, there isn't much "super" about the experience for me. Not to be crude or sexist, but buying one would be like picking a wife or girlfriend based solely on maximum bust size. Without regard to the fact that you get an enormous waist and butt to go along with it. The GT-R is ugly outside, ugly inside and has a curb weight closer to a Porsche Cayenne than a Porsche Cayman. Yes, the performance numbers are good, but the two tons and AWD completely eliminate sense of visceral, nimble handling on public roads. "Super car" to me is a term to reserve for a GT-3 or 458.

    I hope not to pay full MSRP on the Cayman S, but, as with real estate, it's better to get only a fair deal on a great car than a great deal on only a fair car.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,052
    I have not had the luxury to drive the worlds best Nissan. But in my eyes and the journalist it is- as this recent article will suggest

    http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-68906135/

    As they say in big business - paying retail is for s@@kers
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    edited December 2012
    As they say in big business - paying retail is for s@@kers

    Well if you were lucky enough to be one of the few hundred buyers to pick up a brand new Ferrari 430 or 458 at the MSRP, you could have driven it for a year, sold it and bought a GT-R with the profit. Of course, that would get you quickly knocked off Ferrari's "A" list for future purchases. Me, that's not a list I'll soon - or ever - be on.

    I hope this makes you almost as happy as me - I just put a deposit on a 2013/4 Cayman S at a discount off MSRP, and am #1 on their list for a customer ordered car. Porsche won't take the order for another few weeks and I won't get the car before April, but I think my shopping is over.


    Regarding the GTR, if you must have 0-60 in under 3 seconds for $100k, my choice would be to buy a 2-3 year old pre-owned 911 Turbo S. The only thing that will get you to 60 quicker is a Bugatti. The Porsche is a little more refined for my tastes. And doesn't look like it was created by an uncooperative committee of Nissan designers that used the Plymouth Barracuda for inspiration. Plus, Porsche still believes in offering manual transmissions - an unfortunate rarity in the world of supercars.

    http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1206_nissan_gt_r_black_edition_vs_por- - - - sche_911_turbo_s_comparison/viewall.html
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,052
    Bit all over the place- the 911 Turbo prob a better car- but again it's 70k more. That's a huge chunk of change- and in terms of % of MsRP difference you could by a boxter as a daily driver if you wanted.

    Congrats on the order and nice work paying less then sticker.
  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524
    I have and other than flooring the accelerator, there isn't much "super"

    And what track did you drive this GT-R?

    How about this...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUM4fM-85ZM

    BTW, this video shows just how fast the GT-R is around a race track since it broke the record on this lap..

    Not bad for porky car..

    To fair, the GT-R is an amazing car for the speed and handling the the car can do for its weight.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Note that I said 2-3 year old pre-owned 911 Turbo S. The Turbo's depreciate at a faster rate than the GT-3 - as further evidence of what the serious enthusiasts really enjoy driving. The independent Porsche service place I go to has a legendary master mechanic and former race team member who has even disconnected the front wheel drive on a number of 993 and 996 Turbo's because of the enthusiast preference for RWD.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    And what track did you drive this GT-R?

    No track, I-270 and the DC Beltway during some non-rush hour times. And it was last year with a 2011 model.

    Again, great numbers on paper and there is no disputing the 500+ hp and AWD ability to get the 2-ton car around a track quickly. But until you drive one, it's hard for me to explain the unsatisfactory experience I had. This is just a sledgehammer of a car, nothing scalpel like about it, when you are driving it anywhere but the Nurburgring track. Nissan's answer to the Viper, not a Ferrari or Porsche. And, by the way, the RWD 911GT2 took back the title from the GT-R with a lap time of 7:18. Again, not that this matters that much to me. I want a sports car that is attractive, light, enjoyable to drive at 30 mph as much as 100+ and still let's me row my own gears, no matter how bad or slow I am. The GT-R is a hell of a deal for the right buyer, just not me.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,052
    Note you said 2-3 yr old Porsche - and posted a new vs new comparo. I have a Jr mechanic, he rotated my tires and chipped a rim.
  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524
    Habait I have driven two GT-R's on races tracks at speed, A 2010 (stock) at Willow Springs (the big track) and 2012 (slight modified) at Firebird Raceway.After a lap or two you f forget how much the car really weights when you are throwing the car into turns at speed. The builds speed VERY quickly and can stop just as quick.

    We all have our likes and dislikes, you like the S2000 over a NSX, you like the Cayman and I like the Boxster.

    Now if Nissan can shave off 750 pounds from the GT-R I highly doubt you will fine a better car for the money...
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    edited December 2012
    Now if Nissan can shave off 750 pounds from the GT-R I highly doubt you will fine a better car for the money...

    That 750 lb "shave" may involve a few hours with my chain saw and end up with something that looks more like a Cayman than a GT-R. No I suspect Nissan will continue to produce a nearly two ton GT-R and be unapologetic for its girth. As they have every right to be.

    My preference for a lighter weight, more refined, manual transmission coupe like the new Cayman S over the GT-R is just that, a preference. Most of my time in the driver's seat will be in sub-sonic speeds where nimble handling - and interior design - will be noticed, but the raw power of 545hp will not. Would I like more power? Who among us wouldn't? But if it's a trade off between 0-60 in 4.5 seconds and 2.9 seconds vs. giving up the enjoyment of shifting my own gears, a marginally ugly interior (IMO) and Barracuda inspired exterior, and a car that is "clunky" around town (Edmund's quote), I'll take 4.5. But that does not mean that I don't respect your choice to go with the GT-R based upon your preferences.

    It may be valid to call something "better" based upon a single attribute. But my choice of cars - and I suspect yours - involves several attributes, some of which are in conflict with each other and change over time. In 2005 I bought a 911S Cab at $10k more than the coupe. The soft top was a detriment to absolute track performance, but a joy for my daughters in the mini-back seats. Now I'm about to pay $3,000 more for a Cayman coupe than a Boxster. Go figure.

    Bringing this back to ELLPS, the trade-off preferences can be even more subtle. Nissan is often dinged on the lack of refinement relative to the G37 vs. the BMW 335i or even Acura TL-AWD. Other's might take the raw power and performance of a Subaru WRX and ask why anyone would consider a more expensive ELLPS. As you said, it all comes down to likes and dislikes and weighing preferences, not just a single attribute.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,707
    It sounds to me like you might be interested in the new Scion/Subaru coupes. They are light, agile, and perfect for zooming around town and up and down mountain roads. Plus, you could get one, modify it with a supercharger, and a ton of other goodies and still be 10K under the price of the Nissan or Porsche.

    As much as I love the Cayman, it's overpriced and they still haven't really fixed the problem with the output shaft bearings. The Nissan is simply too heavy to be considered.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,396
    they still haven't really fixed the problem with the output shaft bearings

    My understanding is that the infamous Intermediate Shaft bearing failures were cured when they eliminated the entire part with the adoption of the 997 motor circa 2007. I don't think this problem ever affected the 987s (Cayman and Boxster after 2005)
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    It sounds to me like you might be interested in the new Scion/Subaru coupes.

    Once again, personal preferences. I still like playing baseball with 20- and 30- somethings, but I'm a couple decades and entire headset past wanting to have something that would characterize me as a boy racer. I'll pay up and forego that $10k difference. No argument that Porsche pricing isn't a little painful...they didn't become the most profitable car company on the planet by accident. But, to their credit, the craftsmanship and engineering is right up there with the best on the planet. I sometimes wish Honda had evolved their S2000 into an S3500, but for now, there really isn't anything in a sports car format that appeals to me as much as the Cayman and/or 911. So I guess I'll pay up for that preference as well.

    The good news is that they did fix the rear main seal leak, if that is what you are referring to. Some time ago, in fact. I had a 2005 911S (997) and it didn't drip a drop of oil in 5.5 years and 30k+ miles. That problem pretty much went out the door with the 996 model of 911 and the pre-2008 (I think) Boxsters and Caymans. My independent Porsche mechanic has a 2007 Cayman with 120k+ miles that looks brand new, and he would claim it was all about proper break in.
  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524
    I believe if honda dropped a V6 in the S2000 it would have lost it's handling characteristics that made it what it was.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Probably right. Better to leave well enough alone, and simply reminisce about what a mere $32k bought me in 2001
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,052
    What if they put that 6 in the trunk- ?
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