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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans



  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,475
    I see your way of buying, but it's not for me. I NEVER leased and it is not likely I will start any time soon. This may be a function of cars I have bought and continue to like. Subaru doesn't subsidize their leases much (residuals tend to be close to market value, they sometimes lower the money factor), even the 328i I bough last year (wagon) had lease with MF way too high for my taste. After I factored 15K miles/yr I need (perhaps a bit less, but not much), all the extra fees that come with the lease, lease was not even close to be considered. It was something like 5 yr. loan at below 3% or three year lease with extra fees and equivalent MF around 5% (after conversion to interest rate) - and the residual wasn't awesome, either. No can do in my book. If I were getting a sedan or coupe, sure - lower MF would compensate for higher fees.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,107
    Interesting take- thank you. I can def see the reason to go "up" if the price is right. And In the case of the TL vs the A4 we are talking 3600 bux of real dollars on a car you do not even own, assuming a 36mth lease- real money.
  • I leased a 2013 CTS sedan in Dec so far I have been very happy with it I have about 700 miles on it I am still learning about it would due again
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    I am driving a 2012 Acura TL SH-AWD Advance with two accessories on it

    What is your take on what magazine auto testers have been saying about current gen Acura TL steering. They say it has problem on-center. I had a 2012 TL loaner last year, drove it on suburban, interstate, country roads and the steering feel was weird. Not like my older 2004 TL which is very precise, no on-center problems.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,107
    What model? Options ? What's your opinion on the car?
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,733
    edited February 2013
    Note that the oil life indicator is German and is precisely what it says it is. That is, it tells you how much protection the oil has left in it. When it hits 0, it's not time to change it. It's essentially turned into water and you're damaging the engine. (0% protection left)

    Change it when it hits 50% or 6000 miles. Other than that, enjoy the ride. It's a fantastic alternative to a BMW 5 series.
  • Dont know what you call precise but my 2009 awd is precise as they come, most manufacturers are moving away from the hydro to electric.
  • gmcustsvcgmcustsvc Posts: 4,055
    Glad to hear you're enjoying your CTS, tommy42! Let us know if you have any questions about the operation of the vehicle - we're happy to help as much as we can!
    Sarah, GM Customer Service
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,590
    If you frequented a lot of the other Edmunds forums or owners forums of mainstream cars you would realize that a lot of people are comparing a Camry to ES etc.

    Interesting, I wonder if Toyota knows this, if so Toyota could increase the base price of the Camry to be more inline with the ES. Not too sure why the typical Camry LE buyer would be looking at a base Lexus ES, since there is roughly 20K difference in the price of the cars...
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,952
    It's not the "typical Camry LE buyer" that I believe is looking at an ES. It the absolutely loaded Camry V6 XLE buyer that is looking at the almost $34k MSRP. They think maybe they can get in a base ES for similar money but they would have to give up some bells and whistles like NAV, JBL etc. The base ES is $36995. So there is only a $3k difference. I don't imagine a lot of people do it but I know there are some as eveidenced just by the people that have commented here. And $20k difference is quite an's $13500 diffence between the LE and the ES.

    They may say to themseves..."gee, for $3 grand I can have a Lexus with a longer warranty and nicer dealership experience and a little more luxury feel." That could be tempting if they can swing it. Oh, but they'll have to buy a $100 Garmin though.
  • richw5richw5 Posts: 152
    The engineer involved with the algorithm of the Oil Life Indicator was a poster on the Caddy Info site back around 2002 - 2003. He stated that the Oil Life Indicator has a built in protection factor for the engine once you hit 0% oil life. I change my oil at about 10% oil life left and my CTS has been running great for almost 11 years.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,733
    edited February 2013
    You must be lucky, then, because many many people have had their engines dump their oil into their cat via blown gaskets by waiting until it reads 0. In fact, the official advice (NOW) from the GM dealership mechanics nationwide is to change synthetic oil at 6K miles.

    Yes, there are class action lawsuits pending as well. GM's solution was to reprogram the oil life sensor to be more sensitive, but it really doesn't solve the issue which is that synthetic oil is only good for twice what conventional oil is.

    metal3883, "Cadillac CTS Engine Problems" #604, 11 Dec 2012 5:17 pm
    32 pages long and growing. Oil is so darn cheap versus a new engine that it pays to be cautious especially when it appears that we're being used as Guinea Pigs by GM for using synthetic oils in the new engines.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,107
    Interesting that you would go with the Camry LE as a example- and not the closer top end model that we have been talking about all along- a mainstream car at a price level that would make you think about a jump up- or a lux car like the tsx that would make you look at a accord touring (which is a shade less then tsx tech) and has more features.

    Like the use of 20k - nice but a fail.

    Anyone seen "hat backwards" guy, could be on a road trip in GFs S.
  • Anyone seen "hat backwards" guy, could be on a road trip in GFs S.
    I think he is on these boards everyday.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,107
    Haven't seen him, love that cat
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,590
    If we are talking main stream cars, then the LE is the model to talk about, since the LE outsells any other Camry. Yes, if someone was looking at a top of the line XLE camry then the next jump would be the Avalon and think the base price of the base Avalon is $1K less then a fully loaded XLE. The ES base price is higher then a fully loaded XLE. Lexus err Toyota has done a great marketing job on Lexus, people are willing to pay more for the lexus name. BTW, a fully loaded ES is more than a fully loaded Avalon.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,107
    The point of the agreement as I stated before was price - not specific Toyota model sells the best- I think you know this- if a person is looking at 22k car ofcourse they are not going to step up. - it's also not Lexus specific to Toyota - as stated before.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,408
    While gassing up my 328xi last night, a guy pulls up behind me in an F30 328xi Sport Line. He noticed me checking out his car & I asked him how he liked it. He told me the car was "nice," but "way too soft." He liked the way his old 330Ci coupe drove much better.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,952
    BTW, a fully loaded ES is more than a fully loaded Avalon.

    Wow, what a revelation! A loaded luxury car is more than a loaded non-luxury car. Who would have thought? Gee, I bet a loaded Panamerica is more than a loaded Passat too. Isn't that something.

    I would rather admit I'm wrong than clutch at straws to try to make myself look better. Camry LE because it's the biggest seller? :confuse: Wasn't even remotely close to what we were talking about. We were talking about cross shopping the loaded mainstream against base luxury because of the closeness in price. A Camry LE is not a loaded Camry.

    Bringing in the Avalon actually makes my point even more. A loaded Avalon Limited is almost $4000 more than a base ES. The ES is now based on the Avalon(not the Camry) so it's the same size, drivetrain etc. That is why I said that a lot of people that were looking at loaded mainstream vehicles may crossshop the lower end of the luxury makes. Because they are so close in price and capability.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,475
    What is Panamerica? ;)

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

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