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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,475
    edited April 2013
    180 hp for diesel is a lot. I think calling it 328d is appropriate here, as the 280 lb-ft torque is even larger than 328i (much shorter though, of course). IMHO the renaming to 328d is also a tell regarding the expected price. If past history is to guide us, it is reasonable to expect price differential similar to that between E90-based 335d and 335i.

    The 45 mpg is now mentioned on their website. I remain slightly skeptical, but if BMW learned VW lesson, perhaps it will be more accurate. VW made a huge blunder preanouncing in big letters over 50 mpg on the new Jetta and delivering nowhere near that number after EPA testing. I was joking that they must have mixed up kilometers per imperial gallon with mpg. It wasn't that bad, but the blunder was obvious. The embarrasment was so big that VW challenged their users to a survey on real life numbers. Talking spin doctors - Joe from Ohio says he got 56 mpg, so should you!

    I also heard that EPA mpg number is based not just on real testing, but also on extrapolation calculations based on that testing. It is basically is a good predictor for traditional gas engines, but it reportedly completely breaks down on hybrids (overestimates mpg) and has some significant flaws on diesels (presumable underestimates). I don't know if that is really true, but it would make sense why some hybrids are so off when it comes to the mileage.

    Many immediately smelled big conspiracies and foul play, but to me a botched methodology due to using calculations outside of their intended class of problem (happens all the time in engineering), seem much more reasonable explanation for the blunder. I simply don't think Toyota, Ford, or Honda were purposly misleading consumers. They simply run tests and calcs according to EPA guidelines, but those turned to be wrong for new technology.

    I agree with your last statement - diesels are not for everybody. They definitely have their place in personal vehicle market (e.g. taxi cabs, SUVs, pickup trucks), especially for those traveling often large distances at constant speeds. American aversion was a bit overdone. However, they are not cure for cancer, either.

    I wonder how much more 328d will cost. If they misprice it, they may kill it before it shows up.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,108
    Guys a with a little help from google you can get most of the info

    http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-328d-quick-spin-review.html

    I think the d will be an interesting car- but the volume will come from the reg 328- the real question on the whole bmw line is how long they will be able to Charge so much more for less car - better options for 40k- I mean even the ugly TL has a sh-t load more standard, and can be had for a massive discount- awd and is larger and more powerful and will run a lot more with less maintence for thousands less then the avg 328- now we all know most 3s are leased but for those who keep cars 5 years why would you go new bmw?

    I'm still amazed at some of the non standard features on a sudo lux car- it's amazing.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,475
    They have been able to charge more for "less car" (using your definition anyway) for fifty years now, so I don't know - perhaps another fifty years? ;)

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,108
    edited April 2013
    The definition is fact, just look at the Msrps -and what comes standard :surprise: z
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,238
    edited April 2013
    end up driving these things these days are so far from what BMW used to be that it's a sociology study. BMW is now a volume seller of vehicles to whomever can be convinced to buy (or more likely, lease) them. The enthusiasts who built the brand are no longer necessary.

    The door's over there -- don't let it hit you on the way out.

    As usual, I was a day late and a dollar short. By the time I was able to afford a BMW (actually purchased, to keep) things were headed down the chute. They don't miss me, but I sometimes pine for what might have been.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,475
    I meant to say, "stuff" is not everything. It is possible to sell "more car" with less "stuff". Lotus would be an example. My point BMW has always been more expensive in relation to Acura, Lexus, or Audi. They have always got away with it. Will they in the future? Only time will tell.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,590
    Dino when it comes to MPG the diesel engine will make more MPG as the engine get miles. In regards to the VW, when new the Golf, Jetta and other VW cars with the TDI get good miles when new, however, the more miles on the engine the better the MPG, on the Diesel forum people post their real world MPG and it is amazing to see the difference. I'm thinking the same will be said with the 328d, put 10-15K on the engine and a true mid 40s on the highway would be doable. The true value of the diesel is not to own it for 3 years (lease) and then turn it in, but to own it for 10 yrs.

    In regards to price, I would assume base would be around 38-40K. It will be interesting to see where MB will price the C class diesel and GLK diesel. AS well as the Audi A4 Diesel, and from what I read the Audi TDI will have more HP 180hp and 240lbs... An interesting time for diesels in the US.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,496
    I really wanted a BMW Bavaria, in 1972.
    Really, really wanted one – and could afford one.
    I was overruled by my then wife.
    [ Bought a Volvo. ]
    In mid-2011 I ordered a 335, for European Delivery.
    It still had enough BMW-ness for me. Then.
    I do NOT see a BMW that will likely tempt me when the lease is up, later this year.
    ‘down the chute’ in 2 years?
    - Ray
    Just one data point . . .
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,100
    ray....I concur with you. The "new" BMWs just aren't "doing it" for me. I have no desire for a diesel. While their 4 cyl turbos are interesting, they sort of fall down on the NVH scale.

    They keep moving ever so further away from the "sport" part of sports sedans/coupes.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,238
    edited April 2013
    I do NOT see a BMW that will likely tempt me when the lease is up, later this year.
    ‘down the chute’ in 2 years?


    Good to hear from you, Ray.

    They'll never miss us, but we will miss them, to some extent.

    Oddly, my TSX offers me more involvement with the car than today's BMWs -- DIY-friendly owners' manual, nice manual transmission, real tires (with a spare) and a dipstick.

    Nowdays it's necessary to have your BMW flatbedded to the dealer to get the battery replaced. That's kind of a big deal here in AZ where summer battery failure is a fairly regular occurrence. Granted, the battery's in the trunk and is unlikely to pack up for the person who leased the car, but my last car was like that and it required two battery replacements during the time I owned it. Both were performed by me where the car sat when it wouldn't start.

    Then there's that electric steering thing.
  • OK, so I did test drive the Infiniti G37 and BMW 328 and 528. Here is what I think
    G37 - Did not feel luxury at all. Also, not great in driving. So this is off my list now.
    328 - Wow!! What a car. Loved the way it drove. Simply amazing. I would have bought this one except the size. Little too small for family of 5. So thought will drive 528.
    528 - Not as good of a drive as 328, but still great. The price tag is very high. Was thinking should try out 535 since with v6, it might be a better drive for the bigger car, but again due to price shock did not even try it.

    So now I am back to Lexus ES 350.
    With what I have learned from this forum, now I am interested in trying the Avalon (limited). It come out about 2K less that lexus and also has wider backseat. So want to try it and see how it feels.
    Another thing I have started to think about is to lease a MB. Will try the C250 and C350 and see how they feel and how big is the backseat.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,744
    Have you thought about the Hyundai Genesis? It's probably in same price point as the LS or C but will give you GS/5/E amenities.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,475
    edited April 2013
    Just curious - what is your reason for large back seat? Do you often carry three full size adults, or is your kid(s) over 6-3 tall? Just curious, you obviously have reasons, but I often found out that imposed search parameters people use are often imaginary rather than real. For example, non-existent boat that "could" be pulled by the vehicle (that's why "need" for a big truck based SUV, or mother-in-law visiting town once a year being a reason to get seven passenger vehicle). In other words, the air is as comfortable in 328 than as in Avalon. ;)

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • I have three kids. Two will be in child seat (not the rear facing or the booster). Just two regular car seat. The third is older kid in the middle, not requiring car seat. I tried that on 328. Did not work well. Very uncomfortable.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,593
    Was thinking should try out 535 since with v6, it might be a better drive for the bigger car, but again due to price shock did not even try it.

    This was probably a typo on your part but the 535i, like all 6 cylinder BMWs, uses an inline six.

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,475
    Need a minivan? ;)

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • Already have one. Need a sedan that can sit 5 comfortably. Currently have a Camry and it does the job well.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,413
    I'm kind of in the same boat as you. I've got 3 kids. For family hauling duties we've got a 2011 Honda Pilot. My DD is a 2011 328xi which is actually smaller than the current generation 328xi that you drove. 90% of the time it is just me in the car. If I need to take 2 kids with me, I can put their car seats (high back booster seats) in the back of my BMW. They actually prefer the back if my 2001 Honda Prelude. My point is that I don't need 2 cars that'll fit all 5 of us.

    Like dino001 said, so many times we say we need cars for that "what if" that comes along once or twice a year.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,475
    Howa about 328 wagon? it is just about to be released. Same driving experience as sedan (I know, I have one previous gen, there is no difference from sedan), same legroom, but better access to back seat and more back headroom than sedan. Since your passengers are kids, not adults, legroom is not as critical, but improved access maj just do the trick. And you get extra cargo space for kids' stuff. If you wait another six months, there will be 328/335 GT, more legroom in the back, better access.

    Think about it - if the car is really for you and only sometimes for the kids, 328 wagon could really be for you.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,170
    the one thing that the wagon won't have happens to be the key issue. Back seat width.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

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