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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,108
    Thanks guys I like being told I'm right it feels great and appreshiated. Wish my wife would go along with that- or even flight for that matter.

    On the Camry comment - I'm sure Nissan is fine with what they did with the Altima as its past and current sales dictate. Not a great example - maybe use a fusion and a Mazda 6- or something different in that argument- Nissan bad example as the Altima prob saved the brand during the mid late 2000s.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,475
    I'm referring to Nissan from 90s, not 2000s. Altima was a pittiful car then, Maxima was not much better. Whole line was gutted of any sportyness. 2000 (or so) Altima was indeed the car that saved Nissan, along with that 3.5l V6 engine.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,108
    From the 90s ... (For model Code guys, the w5245) Really ? never mentioned in the long post above might of misses it thou. I think Nissan has done ok with the Altima. And the comment about the 3.5 is funny- most of the cars they sell in bulk are 4 cyl under the Nissan name and have done so for 10 years plus years. Sure the engine has had many awards and pulls like a mofo . But look at sales (10 years) of maximas, pathfinders , and to a lesser extent large rogue (name excapes me) and tell me it saved the brand? Maybe you mean saved Infiniti ?

    I think what saved Nissan was a quality 4 door sedan with a 4cyl - that undercut the Camry a bit on pricing- might have been a little edgier looking and performed a touch better in base form and had more standard stuff.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,475
    edited May 2013
    The 3.5 was put in Altima, Maxima, Murano, Pathfinder, Xterra, Frontier, Quest, Z350, all Infinities but top of the line (G, I, FX, EX, M). It was highly acclaimed at the time, universally acknowledged as one of best. Yes, Altimas were selling mostly 2.5, but all cars above Altima had that engine and it was responsible for their success. Especially Z350, Murano, G35, FX.

    I agree styling of that new (then) Altima combined with aggressive pricing was the main contributor in turnaround in Nissans largest volume car sales. But the engine (and more generically platform) was another major contributor. It created a real buzz of Nissans being fast, even if people actually were buying smaller engine.

    At that time Nissan was also beating the rest with best time of assembly. The early cars had some quality issues, but they mostly worked it out - except for Titan and Quest, I think, which still don't have best reputation.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,108
    While I kind of get what you are saying, customers looked at the up crust of Nissan and said wow let's go fast but they bot the 4. No one is saying the engine isn't a good one but I can't quantify with hard numbers the 6 had anything to do with saving the brand, sorry. If its a feeling it saved the brand again it's a feeling, not fact.

    Facts- Look at the April sales numbers for the Nissan division - top 3 cars sold- Altima, roque, sentra- infact they made up 50% all sales. Number four was the versa.
    Btw they sold more jukes then they sold xteras, Maronos, titans and quests- and the maxima outsold the juke by 200 cars for the month. (Juke is real ugly btw) All facts found on nissan corporate website and are US only sales.

    "Even so, Nissan predicts that only 10 percent of Altima buyers will choose the car with two extra pots. But they’d be well advised to do so, because the V-6 Altima offers big power in a very complete package." C and driver
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    The bmw f30 and d45 numbers mean nothing to non-bmw owners

    So, where are the f30 and d45 and other obscure numbers to be found on BMW cars? Tiny chrome strips on fenders, or trunks, or embedded somewhere in the grilles or maybe in the car instruction manual? Thought that BMWs were identified by numbers posted on car such as 325 or similar. f30 sounds goofy for cars. This numbering scheme of f--- is supposed to be reserved for U.S. fighter jets.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    It's a nice car but lacks the magic of my E46 or for that matter my E39.

    What the heck is E46 or E39. Seen many commercials on TV for the cars, but never ever heard them mention these acronyms.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,108
    Yep it's language only reserved for bmw Enthusists, to me it's douchie talk. Year and model number please like every other car on the planet.">
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,475
    These are mfr codes for two and three generations back of 3-series model. Easier than saying 198x to 9x, especially that coupes or convertibles are introduced two or even three years after sedan versions of same platform. With the code, it is more precise.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,593
    to me it's douchie talk. Year and model number please like every other car on the planet.">

    If you say so but my car is a 2000 528i/E39 but it's quite a bit different from the current 528i/F10 which has a 3 liter engine compared to the 2.8L in my car.

    All those E/F designations help to emphasize platform mates that have much in common with the primary distinctions having to to with motors. Mercedes guys do it too using W### designators.

    BMW model nomenclature hasn't been very consistent so the platform letter-number system helps because it's been more consistent. I think the same applies to M-Benz.

    This topic is Entry-level Performance Sedans, a category pretty much invented by the cars from Munich. A little homework about BMWs might help you in this discussion. If you find this too confusing perhaps your time would be better spent on other boards

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,108
    Please tell me the last mb post was - or even a reference to wx code you speak of on this chat board. Again I get the reason behind such codes, but I don't think I and other non-bmw owners (lovers) NEED to do such homework you speak of- we are not naive infact many of us actually are just as much of enthusiasts even without owning a propeller badge. Sure the Germans as you say invented the category - but as you can see from the right hand column they make up less then half the field.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,100
    FN....I really love the sound of the motor in the S4. That said, I also know it has what Audi calls a "soundaktor". In short, it supplements the sound of the engine which allegedly makes it more pleasing. However, I've test driven the A6 3.0 S/C (a detuned version of the S4's engine). It sounds about the same, just quieter.

    dino...I'm in total agreement. As BMW moves further away from their sporting roots, the likes of Audi is filling that void. Someone in the halls of BMW's HQ presented a PPT complete with spreadsheets showing how BMW could sell more cars if they moved away from their sporting intent. BMW's exec staff agreed, apparently.

    Not so sure they know how to play in the "lux" end of the luxury-sports arena. Benz and Cadillac play better there. But, they're going to give it a shot, so it seems.

    BMW did indeed spend a few decades building their rep and their cachet. That being firmly entrenched, looks like they want to fire a volley at Mercedes and maybe even Cadillac. Maybe this is the first time they've felt both are a threat.

    It looks like Lexus is also going to try to fill part of the market that BMW has vacated. Gotta believe Acura and Infiniti aren't far behind, although both of them have had their toes in those waters for awhile.

    Gotta remember, Acura, Lexus, Infiniti cut their teeth taking aim at German lux, attempting to do it better (and less expensive) than Mercedes, Audi, BMW.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,475
    My issue is BMW is not nearly as luxurious inside, especially in their base trims, as say Audi or MB. Wood inlays really improve the look, also some of those touches you get with those Lux, Sport or M-line packages. The base aluminum trim is quite dull, if you ask me. Their dashboard consoles always look like a 1980s recycle, the competition is light years ahead in styling of the dials and gauges, or center area. It was allright when BMW was the true athlete of the bunch, one took it because the looks didn't count, it was the driving. However, when the steering disaster of those F-coded models took hold, suddenly I ask myself, why would I pay 5 extra grand for this (of course once it is time for my current car to go). So far the only way I see BMW winning me over is by those "peripheral" models like GT, wagon, or perhaps X1, or X3. I find it easy to imagine that those are still sportiest of their peers. Nobody else makes proper wagons anymo, i.e. sedan from hood to center pillar, extended back, no stupid raised suspensions, body claddings or other crossover crap. I believe TSX will be gone soon, so the new 328 wagon may be still in the mix just because there is nothing else left, unless new CTS will still feature wagon. 335 GT could have been a good alternative - killer engine, great space arrangement, but from early reports the steering and suspension are even more vague and soft than sedan/wagon. But is there anything like that around? The rest is the crossover stuff. If I did cross over, indeed, perhaps Audi Allroad - never tried that one. Honda Crosstour or Subaru Outback, if I wanted to save some money. But it's not the same thing than proper sporty wagon. Those are practically dead. :cry:

    For now I'm committed to hold onto my 328 wagon. Just love that thing, 18 months after delivery it's near perfect, not to jinx it. Only some major failures could make me unlove it. I'm not scared of normal maintenance or even occasional repairs. Even couple of grand a year after warranty is not a big deal to me - at all. We shall see in three years how it holds.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,590
    If you say so but my car is a 2000 528i/E39 but it's quite a bit different from the current 528i/F10 which has a 3 liter engine compared to the 2.8L in my car.

    The current 528i/F10 uses a 2L turbo 4 cyl, not a 3L engine. BTW, many BMW enthusiast believe your E39 was the last of the great 5 series.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,593
    BTW, many BMW enthusiast believe your E39 was the last of the great 5 series.

    Yup, my bad on the F10/528i, even I get confused by the messed up current nomenclature. If there was any sense to it the 528i would be called the 520T
    (T for turbo). It's time to drop the dopey "i"-for (fuel) injection which made sense back in the 70s when most cars were still carbuerated.

    As for the E39 being the last great 5er, Jeremy Clarkson calls it the last "mechanical" Five Series and I tend to agree. I'd rather have a great driver with hydraulic steering, a full sized spare, a temp gauge and an oil dipstick than all that i-drive crap and run-flat tires.

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,590
    It's not just reserved for BMW Enthusiast, my buddies in the Alfa club understand the different between a E39 and a E30. Most auto (not all) enthusiast know the difference between 964,996 and a 997 in Porsche speak.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,593

    I don't think BMW or any car company at this point cares about the enthusiasts owner at all.


    I think it might more accurate to say that BMW doesn't care about selling to enthusiasts who are not wealthy. By all accounts the M- badged cars are very enthusiast-oriented and deliver terrific performance but they're also very expensive and it's true that they no longer make an entry-level luxury car that is very performance oriented, I guess they figure us poor people can buy Minis.

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,100
    Wagons have been on death watch for quite a few years. For all intents and purposes, the TLX and BMW wagons are indeed going away, unfortunately. IMHO, they were the best of the breed.

    E wagons are still out there. SRX is more of a crossover than a wagon.

    I was hoping a 3 Series GT would have been the answer, but have heard the same as you dino.

    I hope the new 4 coupe shows something more in line with the F9x series. I really like the look of it from the pics I've seen.

    That being the case, I also have an A6 on my radar.

    Still plan on keeping the S4 for 2-3 more years, though.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,590
    This is why if I was looking for a M5, the E39 would be the one I'd be looking at. Not too heavy, built proof engine, excellent handling.

    In regards the new alphabet games, marketing won out, people would assume that a 520iT wouldn't hold the same level of class then saying 528i. It works in the 3 series with no problem, since the 320i is really a way to get people in to the showroom. The 1 series isn't significant yet for BMW, this of course well changed when the 2014 1 series arrives.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,590
    Wagons have been on death watch for quite a few years. For all intents and purposes, the TLX and BMW wagons are indeed going away, unfortunately. IMHO, they were the best of the breed.

    Not true at all, BMW currently imports a 3 series wagon, and will offer it in a diesel form for 2014. The 5 series wagon sells very well for them. The biggest issue with wagons are simple, people who buy them hold on to them, they are a small niche car for BMW, MB and Audi. The 3 series GT will be interesting, since it's suppose to have more rear passenger room.

    I'm very interested in a 2014 3 series diesel wagon, well wait to see the pricing on it.
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