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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,522
    Dino, BMW has been stating that the 328d will get 45 on the highway. BMW seems very confident of that number, if that is true, they will sell a lot of them. The Diesel engine will come in the wagon and X3. What I find interesting is, there is no word from BMW is the 328d sedan and or wagon will be available in the Euro Delivery program since Europe does not use Ultra Low Sulfa Diesel. I'm suspecting they wont be.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,426
    edited June 2013
    Seems ULSD, i.e. less than 10 ppm, is part of already implemented Euro 5 fuel standard, since 2009, so this is no longer a problem.

    Edit - see the link, There is Euro delivery price on 328d, so no problem. Seems you were misinformed.

    http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=378186&stc=1&d=1369- 332610

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,050
    I'm glad this diesel 3 series is close in price to the normal 3. Sure the base of the 3 is close to midlux level standard cars and you get less for the buck but in diesel form it would be a decent deal given what avg hybrids area going for. The bmws 3 active hybrid starts at 50k (sure it has 340hp). Question can you get it in x form?
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,426
    Yes, you do.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • Hello everyone,
    I'm very attached to my TL-S and start to hyperventilate when I think of another car I will have to buy and drive (eventually).
    It is low mileage 78000, will turn 11 in November, dealer maintained. 2 "bumps" were fixed.
    I don't know or feel any problems. The question is since I am emotional about this car and
    can't let go of it. I already had an old car that I was pouring money into until they couldn't fix it and I was getting stalled at red lights and I gave up after being towed 3 times...yep, that's me.)
    I saw that this is the last year when I can get a $1,500 loyalty bonus.
    Should I be car shopping?
    I went to the test drive today of both 2013 TL and SH options, my car feels more like SH, but I don't like the gas usage- 18mpg city b/c that's where I drive. I get 21 mpg now.
    i am not comfortable in the seat - the headrest is bothering me and side visibility isn't good for me either. The TL is feeling much tighter.
    I am afraid that I won't be able to sell a 2003 car later. I enjoy my car and would buy the same one, only new :-) Thank you for your advice
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,426
    Ooops, just one word can change the meaning. I wanted to say "yes, THEY do", i.e. they'll offer xdrive version with 328d. Sorry.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • billyperksiibillyperksii Posts: 198
    I figured more than less that it is.
    I will hold on some more to my Pearly White SH.
    I am hoping that the new model year will look more European and not like what I am seeing coming out of Japan right now- Lexus and Infiniti.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,883
    edited June 2013
    FN....I didn't realize BMW had wagons out. I just never seen them on the road or at my local dealer.

    Billy....Saw that blurb on the TL SE. I've heard no rumors....not even a hint, that they plan on bringing out a TL-S. That said, I'm not sure what they would have in the cupboard that would warrant a TL-S. Not sure what the 3.5L from the current RLX would net them. Maybe slap some Brembos and fancy wheels on a regular TL...include their PAWS system. Aside from that, what more could they do given what we know of their available drivetrains? Maybe slap the hybrid motivation that's coming out later this year for the RLX?

    Still, for the roughly $40K my sister just paid for her TL SH AWD Advance, I don't see anything remotely close to it for that kind of money given the level of performance and the content.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,426
    edited June 2013
    Wagons... "We don't have them because they don't sell". Of course they don't sell because nobody has them :sick:
    Similar deal with manual tranny. I once, couple of years ago or so, went online and checked all dealers within 100 miles of my Tampa. I think five or six, more than 200 3-series in stock at that time. Not a single manual, no matter coupe, sedan, convertible. No wagons, of course, but that's "normal". Florida is really strange market. Majority of Audis sold here are FWD. To me FWD Audi is like decaf - yeah, you can have one, but what's the point.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,892
    edited June 2013
    How many times have I heard "the reason they don't sell is because they offer them". Well, they used to offer plenty of wagons and sticks. However, dealers stopped ordering what they couldn't sell. What a novel idea.....stock what people buy.

    Having said that, I can see no reason why any car can't be special ordered with the trans of choice. If it costs a little more because it may be a glitche in the production routine than charge a little more to the customer. If a customer really wants something and is willing to pay why not provide it. Now when it comes to station wagons, that's a whole different ballgame because of a number of possible reasons including crash tests, EPA tests, availability of repair parts, component suppliers, etc.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,426
    edited June 2013
    The problem is of course instant gratification mindset. Buying a car today means taking it home today. This is what both customers and dealers want - orders are just additional paperwork and trouble, people can change their minds, every salesman would tell you until it's in the customer's garage, it is not sold. In other parts of the world there is a different mindset - people basically think if they spend so much money, they want everything right. It's very common to make an order and wait 3 months. Here only a few manufacturers (mostly lux brands) are trully geared toward this setup. Others may do it, but they act as it were a big favor. There are some dealers that flat out refuse to do a special order, even if the manufacturer takes it. Then there is Honda and handful of others - they don't take any dealer's orders, they make them and then they push them on the dealers. I heard there were some bribery scandals in Honda corporate, as dealers were trying to buy their consideration for more attractive lines and models. The best you can hope for with Honda is that they'll take the "order" and try to fit it into what's coming off the production line.

    BTW, I always wondered if crash tests required all engine/transmission configurations to be checked, as different total mass, distribution of essential drivetrain components, etc. could justify such requirement. If so, that would be another reason to ditch manual transmissions.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,595
    I heard there were some bribery scandals in Honda corporate, as dealers were trying to buy their consideration for more attractive lines and models.

    All automakers do that. Back when the Explorer was the top selling vehicle, dealers had to take 3 pink Escorts for every extra Explorer they wanted....
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,091
    Yes, dino001. All engine & transmission configurations MUST be crash tested.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,892
    edited June 2013
    As to crash tests, I don't know about different engine/transmission combos but I would think a complete different body style would certainly require testing. A lot of manufactures offer sticks in their entry level models so I wouldn't think just a tranny difference would be much of a player.

    Dealers in Europe often have a very small footprint and car buying is almost exclusively by order. When the U.S. started selling cars there was plenty of land to spread out and build huge dealerships so a big part of the difference in mindset was the availability of space. Sames as car size. Long, wide roads equaled land yachts! Europe and Asian roads on the most part in cities and countryside are much narrower and for the most part, cover shorter distances. IMO if their auto industry had grown up with the wide open spaces that were the norm in the U.S. things would be much different.
  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,522
    Dino its not that I was misinformed, it as my data is old, and thank you for sharing the info. Is there info on the diesel wagon?
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,426
    edited June 2013
    No, 328/335 GT and 328d sedan seem to be all that's new for 2014 3-series (and some option/line tweaking, of course), at least now. I suspect that if it's coming, it'll be 2015 (just a guess). I say IF just because there is no mentioning of it anywhere but here, by you. Future vehicles section has nothing, bimmerfest doesn't either.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,426
    Yeah, I can see that. All makers have allotments and quotas for each model. The difference is Honda dealer gets the configs what distributor decides, while BMW dealer orders his cars exactly as he/she wants, subject to model allotments with only exclusions being some colors are available only on real customer order only. Well, "only" is a bit strong, because it is quite common for new car managers to make up a fake name if they want that M-line blue on their lot.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,595
    But don't forget that Honda has a much simpler model/feature selection and doesn't have options like other manufacturers. For the most part it's pick your model, pick your engine, pick your transmission, pick your seat material and select NAV/no NAV.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,050
    Dino good response given the source. Misinformed and old data never a good mix when talking cars on this board. Going to be interesting how this new go around with D cars in the market- Chevy vw BMW trying to make it more mainstream. I've never ridden or drove in a D before- but given the reviews of the prev 335d I would love to.

    Btw at local bmw dealer they have 3 2014 wagons on the website- cheapests one is over 54k and runs to 57 and change- wow
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