Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

1782783785787788842

Comments

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,428
    My understanding is urea tank is not universal (e.g. VW don't have it and BMWs are not expected to have it), but the rest is true. We also have diesel price higher than premium gas here in Tampa, sometimes as much as 10%, it is seasonal. It never goes even close to regular gas range, which means a decent regular gas four cylinder Honda/Toyota is really way to go for somebody focused on economy. This being ELLPS forum, focusing on fuel economy, especially through diesel technology, seems slightly out of place.

    I think it's classic "legend" thing - people heard that overseas it's popular, so they assume it must be such a great thing. I welcome choice, so I think it's great that they make a first seemingly legitimate attempt to introduce diesel as economic proposition. So far it was only VW that offered a legitimate choice. I don't count 55+ grand rich people toys from Benz or BMW as such.

    It is a bit strange that the diesel focus is on sedans rather than say SUVs and crossovers, where diesels would much more appropriate. I'd welcome diesel powered CRV, Forester, Rogue, Escape, Explorer and like - or workhorse 1/2 ton pickup trucks. That's were diesel would be just great, IMHO - not necessarily in 3-series. So why it is BMW/Benz spearheading this, not Honda, Nissan, or Toyota? It's probably political (CAFE standards hit MB more than Honda) and the investments in hybrid technology that would be threatened is you could buy a Rav4 or Escape with a diesel. Bizarre indeed.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,653
    You are correct that "gas savings", inferred as $ savings, is not a wise financial plan for most individuals when deciding to purchase a diesel.

    There are other intrinsic values of a diesel beyond the efficiency...the addictive torque.

    When we go to lunch we usually drive in a co-workers new Passat TDI (manual). It is not a race machine, and doesn't belong on the track, but if kept within the confines of the legal speed limit it'll snap your neck at will. I even like how it sounds from the inside under throttle.

    The premium paid at purchase time *may* be recouped at sale time (as others have also mentioned).

    I'm not certain how well diesels will play in the ELLPS category, specifically the "Performance" portion, but the lowly VW definitely had the NVH within range of near-luxury specs.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,428
    Interesting - I didn't know Passat's TDI has urea tank. That makes no sense to me. If Jetta doesn't, why would Passat? On surface it looks like same engine (2.0 l diesel). Beats me. Every day learn something new.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524
    Government data, over on the Diesel forum someone post the sales number of the GLK250s they are selling better than what MB had expected. The GLK250 are less then the GLK350 and get roughly 50% better mileage.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    The problem is North Americas "thirst" for horsepower. I think deisels make a lot more sense economically and environmentally when you look at the little 1.6L motors they use in Europe.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,052
    Love to see the numbers as this car only hit dealerships at the end of April and would be surprised the may monthly have been released yet. But if you are trying to say that diesel and hybrid car sales are surpassing overall us market growth rate you would have a legit point.
  • Kirstie@EdmundsKirstie@Edmunds Posts: 10,676
    A reporter would like to speak to a car buyer who refused to buy a vehicle because premium fuel was required/recommended by the manufacturer. If you did not purchase a car after discovering premium fuel was required/recommended, and instead purchased a car that requires regular fuel, send your daytime contact information to pr@edmunds.com by Friday, June 14, 2013 at 10 a.m. PT/1 p.m. ET.

    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,284
    I think a lot of that horse power thirst comes from needing it to pass left lane campers that run rampant in the US but not in Europe. The horsepower is needed frequently, and often to get around these traffic causing scumbags.

    If we didn't have high horsepower our roads would be even more clogged and congested than they already are.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,284
    I test drove at Carmax the '11 C300 and the '12 C250 both priced right at $30K.

    I was surprised the little 4-banger performed as well as the nice V6 in the C300. I'd be hard pressed to tell the difference blindfolded.

    The car rides smoothly, nicely, and handles really well in sport trim. The brakes felt strong and had vented rotors.

    However, I found a few too many bean counter penny pinching items for what is supposed to be a luxury premium car.

    I hate the fact the top roof rail seams are made of a black plastic regardless of what color you get. Works on black or dark gray, horrible with red.

    The '11 had an interior that fails in comparison to my memory of the '03 Accord Coupe LX V6 I had owned previously. The seats in the Benz are comfy, the leather nice, but the dash, center stack, and instrument cluster reek of cheap econo car.

    The '12 mostly fixes this, with a complete front dash redesign, with much better materials, fit and finish. The steering wheel is much nicer in the '12, and has better subjective styling too, but I don't' like that some of the plastic pieces on it look like they come from the same parts bin as my wife's '07 Civic. The plastic parts I happen to like least inside the Civic mind you.

    The HVAC controls bothered me a bit, but I'm sure some of these things you just have to get USED TO. I test drove these because in the past I wouldn't even look twice at a Mercedes due to their previous association with Chrysler (anything ever associated with Chrysler gets blacklisted for life in my book). But now that I've learned Chrysler fans blame Daimler for their downfall (twice in just a few decades I might add), I've decided to give Mercedes a good look and consideration. It seems to serve my purpose of spiting Chrysler better.

    I liked the C class, but I just don't see one with about 15K miles being worth $30K. $25K and your talking.
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Waleska, GeorgiaPosts: 790
    Does anyone know when the recently announced 2013 Acura TL 'Special Edition' will actually be available? The Press Release introducing the car was 6/07/13, which was one week ago.

    The Special Edition adds 10-spoke 18" alloys, Keyless Access w/ Push-Button Start and rear spoiler. It's only available in Black, Pearl White, Graphite or Silver and Ebony (Black) leather with contrasting stitching is the only interior color available.

    It is priced $1500 higher than the TL 'Base' which isn't a bad deal. But even more interesting is that Acura is offering the same exact lease deal as the Base TL, down to the penny. Both models were $1499 due at signing, $319/month for 36 months and 10,000 miles per year allowed. I'd love to see and drive the Special Edition....but wonder when it will start showing up at dealers?
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,052
    I'm sure it doesn't drive that much dif then the normal edition so maybe drive the normal one. Interesting they are releasing a 2013 special at the end of June-
  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524
    Hey Fed, the German wont import the smaller Diesels here, because of the American mentally of more is better. So they will import the top diesel engine.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,897
    Euros pay a lot less in tax if they stay under certain engine displacement. No such tax breaks in the U.S.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,428
    I wouldn't call those breaks. If anything, these are penalties for personal vehicles with engines 2.0 l or more. It's not on just the taxes but also insurance rates that are based on the engine displacement. Both 2 liter is a magic number.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,897
    edited June 2013
    Whatever. Point is the Euros pay less if they keep their engine size small. No such "incentive" here. That and the price of fuel is also additional incentive to go with small displacement and accompanying higher MPG.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,428
    That's right. Bottom line, Europeans use small engines not because they like the, but because their government told them to.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524
    Dino, your right the 2 L is the magic number and MB has a 2.1L diesel that is one of their big work horses, which is being imported to the US.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,897
    Exactly, and given the same scenario that we have in U.S. the Euros would also be driving bigger cars with bigger engines. Some would have you believe it is just one big character fault of Americans. It's not a matter of natural enlightenment.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    edited June 2013
    I dont think anyone claims it's a character fault of Americans or a matter of European enlightenment. The presence of highly regarded tuner companies overseas speaks to the same desire for more speed/performance.

    However, if you go back a few decades before the displacement limits/taxes were imposed overseas, you'll still find that American cars were generally larger and higher in displacement/horsepower than European cars.

    I think it has more to do with the nature and history of Europe and their lifestyle. City congestion (homes are small compared to ours too), tiny narrow streets, limited parking, etc. Their cities are much older than ours and not originally designed to accommodate cars (cobblestone, roundabouts, etc.). They dont have as many (or as large) freeways as we do nor do they travel on highways as far or frequently as we do either. And they have crazy high gas prices...
Sign In or Register to comment.