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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • Secondly, ten years ago I bought a TL Type S brand spanking new for 29,050. Try buying a base TL for that today.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,601
    Paid under $26k. Seems like there is good value in the market if you look for it.

    Nobody said there wasn't value out there but the average price paid for a 2013 model is $31K.
  • kmurkmur Posts: 36
    Passats are also still very good buys.

    But this thread is on entry level lux performance sedans. Prices for these type of cars have not been stable. Inflation, coupled with new content is the reason. The new A4 I just picked up is a rolling WiFi hotspot for crying out loud. The prices can quickly shoot through the roof because often enough, your "must have" will be bundled up in a $3K to $4k option package. BMW is notorious for doing this, but Audi is guilty as well.
  • tifightertifighter WAPosts: 1,350
    $22,800 in 2003 is $28946 in 2013 dollars. The 13 has more space, is safer, better equipped and gets better mileage.

    I bought cars 10 years ago too. I'm happy with what I got for my money in 2013.
  • tifightertifighter WAPosts: 1,350
    I realize what the thread is about. What was said was-

    I think it's ridiculous the average American spends mid 30's for an average new car.

    I'm just saying that a well-equipped Accord is a mid-twenties car and is the epitome of an average new car. I think higher average transaction prices are as much on the consumer as the manufacturer...they are buying more CUVs with higher margins, they are more brand conscious, etc. The market just continues to evolve.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,897
    According to the Auto Dealers Association the average transactions as of Nov 2012 was right at $30k. That is a not mid-thirties.
  • tifightertifighter WAPosts: 1,350
    No argument here.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,284
    The S4 is far from an average car though :)

    I did find it ridiculous that a Rav 4 V6 with a Corolla-like interior cost as much as my new A3 2.0T in '06. Of course, the other side of that coin is that the Audi was a ridiculously great value back then ($30K out the door).
  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524
    "A few hundred here, a few hundred there, pretty soon your over 30K average transaction price. "

    For 24K the mid-level Nissan Altima comes with a back up camera. I know that back up camera will be mandatory soon, so they will be in all cars are standard equipment.

    There will be always people thinking they are superior drivers, they don't need silly things like back up camera's. I have to say, I'm spoiled, when I drive Ricks Genesis I like the back up camera, also some of the rental cars I have had lately have had them, i.e the full loaded 2014 Chevy Impala LTZ2 I had. I was backing out a space and the back up camera allowed me to see to the left and right of me (a truck and Van on either side) so I was able to see what I was doing.

    I like them and welcome them into the cars.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,897
    I know it's a bit off topic but could you give a short impression of your time with the new Impala?
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    edited September 2013
    My 2004 Volvo V70 had an MSRP of more than $32,000 when I bought it. My wife and I went looking at cars last weekend and fell in love with the Subaru Outback. AWD, leather, moonroof, bluetooth, etc... And MSRP was just over $30,000.

    It even rides better than our now 10 year-old Volvo. More car for less money - Im very tempted to pull the trigger.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,052
    "The S4 is far from an average car though " yep we get that'and somehow the rear camera is not standard, prob because its a performance car and the 2 extra lbs would slow it down.

    btw they don't make the rav4 with a 6 anymore.

    Check check

    Drive fast, take chances
  • billyperksiibillyperksii Posts: 198
    edited September 2013
    I gussed you lucked out.
    My house cost me 229K 11 years ago, now I am upgrading and its running me nearly twice as much.
    Go figure.
  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524
    "give a short impression of your time with the new Impala"

    Over all I liked it, the fit and finish is first rate, the car "feels" more expensive, seats were excellent for comfort, the way the car rode was more connected to the road then any other chevy sedan I have driven. The engine is the 3.6; DOHC 306hp, w/ 6spd auto. The engine revved and wanted to go high but of course the fuel cut off kicked in, the 6 spd auto shifted well, good up shift with no hesitation and downshifts were smooth. I was impressed with the car, no rattles, the car almost rode like a German car, but not as refined as one. I have driven two of them one a top of the line 2LTZ and a 2LT. Behind the radio is a "hidden" compartment that has a USB port so one could load a iPod or ITouch and leave it there connect and not have to worry about it. The cars had 5 USB ports in it, this is the first car I have had with this many. Ford really needs to do something with their Taurus if they want to be competitive in this segment.

    So I liked the car, it is now one of the cars I look for when renting. BTW, so far I have averaged 26 MPG with the cars. I'm sure once they bring the 8 spd/auto into the MPG will go up. I have pictures of the interior but I don't know to upload them.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,052
    5 USB ports - thing must way a ton.

    Interesting review I think the impala is a nice sedan and the reviews say the same will be interesting to see the SS sedan and how well that does
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,897
    Tks. My wife will be looking for a replacement sedan in the next 6-12 months and the Impala is a possibility. I've only seen a couple on the road and I hear they are in short supply at dealers so the fact that you can get them readily at the rental counter is unusual. Guess they wanted to get them out to be experienced by many and the people that tend to rent full size autos are probably their target audience on the most part. How did it compare with the your partner's Genesis?
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,653
    >>5 USB ports - thing must way a ton. <<

    Yeah...probably the new lead based USB 3.0 ports :)
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,049
    edited September 2013
    Johan de Nysschen has his work cut out for him. The new head honcho of Infiniti &#150; formerly of Audi (of America) for almost 20 years &#150; has to do for Infiniti what he did for Audi. He must take a run at making you think of BMW (or Audi) as the German Infiniti. Tall task? Well, based on the lethargic launch of the Q50, I don&#146;t envy Johan.

    You may or may not lend much credence to Automobile, Car and Driver, Motor Trend, Popular Mechanics or Road and Track&#146;s gravitas in promoting [automotive] brands. If you discount these magazines&#146; influence, fine &#150; I would imagine, however, you are at least aware of them (especially if you are participating in this and other car-centric forums).

    The point I will hopefully make is highly derivative; indeed, without apology, the influence for my conclusions has been shaped by John Naisbitt&#146;s 1982 book, Megatrends. Perhaps I should clarify and sharpen my focus: My point &#150; to be revealed shortly &#150; is based on using a technique of observation and counting how much &#147;ink&#148; is spread pertaining to a particular subject, story or brand or product. Moreover, once the quantity of ink has been identified, it is also of importance to identify and rank the content (or the &#147;qualities&#148;) of the ink.

    We&#146;ve all been hearing and reading about the new Q50 for what seems to be a long time (in automotive product life-cycles). We&#146;ve seen full-page ads in the major automotive enthusiasts&#146; magazines for at least a couple of months. What we haven&#146;t seen are test reports, comparison tests and &#147;First Drives&#148; &#150; yet we&#146;re seeing ink (for several months now) about cars that aren&#146;t even available for purchase, e.g., the upcoming Mercedes-Benz CLA45 to name just one.

    Audi and BMW, too, seem to be masters at garnering great quantities of ink about cars that are either still on the drawing boards or aren&#146;t yet in production form, e.g., the BMW M4. Audi, BMW, Cadillac, Lexus and even KIA (!) are very adept at keeping the volume of the buzz about their brands and products cranked up to 11.

    I just got the new Automobile magazine yesterday (October 2013 issue) &#150; the New Cars for 2014 issue. Page 38 - 40, &#147;Driven: BMW 435i&#148; offers up less than a review but more than a rehash of the corporate brochure &#150; the car is discussed, albeit briefly, in terms of performance, style, ride and handling. The spread includes pictures of the car&#146;s anterior and posterior as well as its engine and interior (in red leather). This marks at least 2 mentions (ink) of the &#147;4 series&#148; in this issue.

    Further evidence of the virtual lack of any buzz regarding new Q50 is the &#147;Sport-Sedan Slugfest&#148; in the June &#146;13 Car and Driver &#150; where the BMW 3, the Cadillac ATS and the Lexus IS duke it out for king of the hill bragging rights. I would have thought Infiniti would have busted its hump to get the Q50S included in the slugfest. I would argue that the Infiniti, not the Lexus would have been the odds-on favorite choice for this comparision article based on the G37 being dubbed (more than once) the Japanese BMW. The highly anticipated (and touted) Q50 being excluded from this comparison is an incredible marketing blunder &#150; especially since Infiniti has been showing off the Q50 for several months now at invitation only dealer events where Infiniti representatives regale the invitees with anecdotes wherein the Q50S betters Audi A4&#146;s and BMW 3&#146;s on the track.

    I was, understandably I think, eager with anticipation when I turned to page 56 of the new Automobile magazine to see the mini article, &#147;Driven: Infiniti Q50.&#148; Unfortunately, there is little ink devoted to a discussion of how the car performs. Indeed, what struck me was the following: &#147;. . . the Q50 is not so much an all-new sport sedan as a refreshed and rebodied Infiniti G37.&#148; Most of the remaining ink pertained to the Q50&#146;s ability to [almost] drive itself.

    Even an admitted gadget-geek (like me) would likely be underwhelmed by the content of this &#147;ink.&#148; Practically speaking the buzz potentially created by this ink is arguably not the kind of buzz Infiniti probably was hoping for &#150; and it is certainly not the kind of buzz that is likely to retain the brand&#146;s (or the Q50 itself) image as &#147;the Japanese BMW.&#148;

    Although I have driven a new very high-contented AWD Q50S and can absolutely attest to its worthiness as an A4 or 3 series (and therefore IS and ATS) rival, this conclusion has been reached in spite of Infiniti&#146;s dismal marketing efforts. I seriously doubt the majority of the market the Q50 seems to be courting will notice the Q50 until (or unless) the ink spread around about it focusses more on the performance, luxury and driving dynamics rather than its expensive technology package that seems hell bent on distancing the driver from, er, driving.

    My wife &#150; currently driving a 2011 Infiniti FX35 AWD Premium &#150; sums it up this way, &#147;Infiniti&#146;s do everything well &#150; but they don&#146;t seem to want to involve their customers as drivers. The Germans, especially Audi and BMW somehow imbue their cars, their dealerships, their owner clubs and web sites with customers who are passionate about the brand. Indeed, the thing lacking from Infiniti is a soul or a passion to both drive and be driven.&#148;

    Perhaps that it why even a &#147;pull ahead&#148; deal Infiniti offered her couldn&#146;t compel her to be a two-time Infiniti owner. She went to Audi, BMW and Volvo and drove a like-priced ($50K) Q5, X3 and XC60 and ended up ordering a &#147;passion inducing&#148; supercharged 2014 Audi Q5. Pity, the Infiniti brand (and most of the products individually) can&#146;t seem to catch a break.

    The &#147;Megatrends&#148; methodology seems to indicate BMW is unlikely to be known as the German Infiniti any time soon.

    Drive it like you live. :confuse:
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,428
    I just read an article about sales of 3-series going gangbusters. Basically another piece of evidence that enthusiasts don't matter, at least in short run. People are lining up to buy this "sports sedan" probably for reasons why the same people didn't buy them before - it's big, comfy, easy to drive. But it's a BMW, so it must be sporty, right? Since they've never sit in a true sporty car, if they had, they thought it was uncomfortable crap, how would they know the difference, anyway.
    Looks to me BMW cashed the chips and they bought huge sale boost. It will be interesting to see long term effects of this. VW made a similar gambit with Jetta and Passat by decontenting them, stripping all those good suspension components and making barges out of them. It worked until it stopped. After couple of years of initial huge boost they hit a wall and sales stalled, even fell at some point. I wonder if same could happen to BMW. Maybe not, who knows. One thing is certain, my not liking (hating actually) the new 3 steering doesn't matter.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 13,585
    well, maybe it is no longer "sporty" to old school BMW types, but for anyone coming out of mainstream cars (Camry say) or a Lexus it is certainly a major step up the sports sedan spectrum.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

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