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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,432

    @stickguy said:

    Volvo ED is nice, but the pricing is only attractive when there are no big cash incentives. However, Volvo frequently throws those in, sometimes thousands - which makes ED price is not so great, in comparison. Unlike BMW, Volvo's ED pricing is non-negotiable, like all others, it does not include incentives - however, you sometimes can get an extra discount (usually $500 or so) on certain prebuilt models waiting in Sweden. And you still get the ticket, one night at the hotel and the dinner, and you can have a free car rental for couple of weeks. It is worth something, if you plan to go anyway.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • tifightertifighter WAPosts: 1,351

    The Accord (TSX) has been a sales disaster in Europe. Creating a new generation for that market would have to look like poor ROI from the accounting department's perspective. And its not like it sells much in Japan either.

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 13,602

    GG, the 270 HP one? That would be fun. I was hoping they would just take a version of the current 2.4l and offer it with the AT, not just the 6 speed Si clone.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,609
    edited January 24

    @tifighter said: The Accord (TSX) has been a sales disaster in Europe. Creating a new generation for that market would have to look like poor ROI from the accounting department's perspective. And its not like it sells much in Japan either.

    Well considering Honda sold only 120K cars in the Europe last year (out of about 12 million) it's hard to say that any of their products are "successful."

    In reality, 4 door mid-size family sedans aka executive saloons don't sell well in Europe.

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,432

    @robr2 said:

    Honda has a "special" status in Europe. It's a brand that everybody recognizes and respects, but not many people buy. Pricing is the issue. Their product is too expensive there, plain and simple. Some of that has to do with tarriffs (for products that are not made in EU), some with market positioning. My dad used to have Japanese made Civic and it was a great vehicle. No perfect, but worked well. He sold it for a nice price when it was time to move on. But the customer base is simply too small for mass-market brand ambitions and price is the root.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,609

    @dino001 said: Honda has a "special" status in Europe. It's a brand that everybody recognizes and respects, but not many people buy. Pricing is the issue.

    I can see that considering that Dacia was the fastest growing brand in the EU last year.

  • dash5dash5 Posts: 417

    @graphicguy said: Hearing some scuttlebut about the new 4 cyl in the upcoming Acura TLX. ~280HP with 270 torque at 1,500 rpm. That will be combined with a DCT trans (8-speed). It also includes Acura's 4 wheel steering (P-AWS) That sounds to be a good performer.

    If you follow the trend, the SH AWD version will have a 9 speed trans and a 3.5L V6. Guessing that it will put out something in the 310-325 HP range.

    Works for me. So right now the TSX V6 with tech is being shown here as ~37K TMV. I hope they keep it under 40.

    How long do I have to wait for some first drive reviews of this car?

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,911

    @dash5 said: Works for me. So right now the TSX V6 with tech is being shown here as ~37K TMV. I hope they keep it under 40.

    How long do I have to wait for some first drive reviews of this car?

    I'm guessing the TLX shown on Detroit is probably pretty close to production ready.

    If I were a betting man, you would probably see the '15 TLX somewhere in the July to September time frame by the time they reach dealerships.

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,049

    I'd bet Acura wants to get the TLX to dealers very soon -- however, there will have to be a bit of a balancing act in that the current TL inventory will have to be taken into consideration, so that the new TLX doesn't force the 2014 TL to be discounted until it hurts.

    My Audi dealer says that based on current inventory, it is now typical for the new cars (without owners names attached already) to be held "in port" whilst the current inventory is worked down.

    I guess we should appreciate that approach (if we are already owners) since it would seem to help preserve, somewhat, the value of the current model.

    I remember when I could go into a dealership and there would be plenty of leftover "last year models" gathering dust until the deep discounting started them moving again. Don't see that so much anymore.

    I'm gonna "forecast" the TLX will fare better with the pro reviewers and enthusiasts' magazines than did the Q50 from Infiniti.

    Been wrong before. :o

    DILYL

  • dash5dash5 Posts: 417

    Personally I'm waiting on the A3/S3 and this TLX. Although this go around I am thinking lease. How well do Acura's lease? Another concern is that these are new models.

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,609

    Acura tends to have some of the highest residual values - they don't lease well unless Honda is supporting the lease price.

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 13,602

    @dash5 said: Personally I'm waiting on the A3/S3 and this TLX. Although this go around I am thinking lease. How well do Acura's lease? Another concern is that these are new models.

    Would not worry much about the acura being a new model. Especially on a lease. I got an early redesign RDX and it was flawless.

    Auras will lease well when not selling for sure. Out of the gate not likely to see anything special on a brand new design.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,911

    BMW probably does the most to subsidize their leases. I think Mercedes does, too.

    I'm not a lease person, so don't know about any of the other manufacturers. But, plenty here have leased BMWs, so I'm going from what they've posted.

  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524

    @robr2 said: Acura tends to have some of the highest residual values - they don't lease well unless Honda is supporting the lease price.

    what are the residual rates for the TL, and MDX?

    Currently all of the 3 series and 4 series cars are 60+% for a 3 year lease.

  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,524

    @graphicguy said: BMW probably does the most to subsidize their leases. I think Mercedes does, too.

    I'm not a lease person, so don't know about any of the other manufacturers. But, plenty here have leased BMWs, so I'm going from what they've posted.

    I wouldn't call it subsidizes they have programs...

    Both BMW and MB have what are called Multi Security Deposits. BMW has a max of 7 and MB has a max of 10. Basically what happens is for each MSD put down lowers your MF what is nice, you get the MSD's back at the end of lease.

    So you save on a lease roughly $1500 on the total lease payments plus you get your full MSDs back, so it's a win win...

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,609

    @flightnurse said: what are the residual rates for the TL, and MDX?

    TL is 55-57% and MDX is 50-52% on a 36 month lease.

    Both BMW and MB have what are called Multi Security Deposits. BMW has a max of 7 and MB has a max of 10. Basically what happens is for each MSD put down lowers your MF what is nice, you get the MSD's back at the end of lease.

    The only drawback is the one doesn't have access to that money during the lease period should one have a need for it.

  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,681
    edited January 29

    @robr2 said: The only drawback is the one doesn't have access to that money during the lease period should one have a need for it.

    I see that someone on that forum calculated the investment return when he added 7 X $700 MSD, and it worked out to 19.3% return on his $4900 (total return for duration of his 24 month lease). That's at least as good as most people can earn in private conservative investment.

  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,898

    Did you mean 1.93%? If you know where one can earn 19.3% in a conservative investment.......please share. Is Bernie back at it???

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,609

    @MrShift@Edmunds said: I see that someone on that forum calculated the investment return when he added 7 X $700 MSD, and it worked out to 19.3% return on his $4900 (total return for duration of his 24 month lease). That's at least as good as most people can earn in private conservative investment.

    I read that as well. Putting $4900 down as a security deposit reduced the monthly payment by $40 a month. Over 24 months, the return was over 19%.

    But I'm guessing those that can afford to tie up $5K for 2 years aren't stretching to buy a 328 for $300 a month.

  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,681

    Oh I don't know. There are some well to do people who are pretty tight with a buck. I have no idea how popular these MSDs are.

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