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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,897

    Well, entry level is entry level. That definition is pretty clear cut. Sedan is pretty clear cut as well. The only thing that is questionable is the "performance" part. But it appears the A3 will perform just as well if not better than the A4. I think that was the hang up with the TSX being included in that it didn't really fit the "performance" model in a lot of people's minds. I had no problem with it being included because there are a lot of A4 w/ front wheel drive running around out west and down south that are very close on paper to a TSX. I know most people think of the Quattro when they talk Audi ELLPS but that's a choice of their own.

    Doesn't really matter all that much to me. But technically, a lot of the cars that have been traditionally discussed here are no the the performance entry from that particular brand anymore. It's just so complicated isn't it.

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,894

    @dash5 said: The new TLX: Definitely on my short list.

    Thanks, Dash. By appearance alone it's at the top of my next car shopping list.

  • Michaell@EdmundsMichaell@Edmunds ColoradoPosts: 1,144

    @graphicguy said: Thanks, Dash. By appearance alone it's at the top of my next car shopping list.

    That is a handsome car - is it just me, or do I detect some semblance to the ILX around the C-pillar and trunk area in the side profile?

    michaell@edmunds.com

    Moderator, Prices Paid and Leasing Experiences

    2013 Hyundai Elantra GT / 2010 Mazda CX-7 GT / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,569

    Wish they would have (drastically) changed the grill.

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 13,585

    Nice

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • dash5dash5 Posts: 417

    I like the grill now. Interesting that there is no shifter. Overall though looks great and I'm anxious to see how they price it.

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,894

    @Michaell@Edmunds said: That is a handsome car - is it just me, or do I detect some semblance to the ILX around the C-pillar and trunk area in the side profile?

    Michaeall...I see that same tail light treatment in the ILX, the RLX, and how the TLX. At first, I wasn't sure I liked the LED headlights, as Acura is using them as a design cue. They're starting to grow on me, though. Looks like the tailights are the LCD "lite pipe" variety replacing my LED tail lights. That interior is gorgeous.

    Saw some other specs....

    0-60 around 5 secs for the TLX SH AWD (about 1/2 sec quicker than my current TL SH AWD). MPG is 21/31. I get 21 in the city, now. So, not sure that is an upgrade. But, if the numbers are right, I'm getting 28 MPG on the highway. If they can hit 31 MPG with the new trans, that would be great.

    3.5L. 290 HP and about 270 TQ. That HP and displacement is less than my durrent TL (305 HP, 3.7L), but apparently the new 9-speed trans and weight reduction is attributed to the higher performance.

    TLX multi-link suspension replaces my TL's double wishbones. Not sure about that. Will have to drive to see how that affects ride/handling.

    Probably stop by my dealer tonight to see when their roll out is going to be.

  • flightnurseflightnurse at 35K feetPosts: 1,523

    Having my 320i now since Oct and having over 12K miles on I can say that BMW did it's homework on a entry level Sports sedan. One can get a 320i with the Sports package, (it's really the M sport package) for $1300, a bargin... It can be had with a manual transmission out the door for roughly 5% less then MSRP, if the buyer knows how to haggle with the salesman and over on Bimmerfest, a lot of people know how to haggle. If you add the Premium package to said car, you have a nice ELLPS. Now on power, the 320i only makes 180, but installed the BMS Stage 1 ($395 and installs in 45 minutes) and the power difference between the 320 and 328 disappear. In fact, my 320i is faster then a E90 328i. Overall I'm very happy with this car, as I stated in the past, I don't plan to track the car, so not having a the sport package hasn't been a issue for me. I have been driving it lot between Phoenix and San Diego, Phoenix and Tucson, and I'm simply amazed at the highway MPG best been 36.6 MPG, with cruise set at 80 and A/C on. Is the face of ELLPS changing yes, and I think Acura was the first company to make it change with the TSX.

  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,569

    Regarding the TLX: I like the grill now.

    For me, I still don't dig the shield look, and it's kind of bulbous.....totally subjective, I know.

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,052
    edited April 16

    tsx Nothing more then a rebaged smaller accord-while a nice car- the new tlx looks great from the side but sorry the grill is still so pronounced it really takes away from the rest of the car like the TL, which by all accounts was a styling nightmare for the brand. & If they are going to make cars without shifters just put a seat in its place, let's make it a 6 seater------ push button drive, reverse, nav button, parking break - seems like they are trying to hard and I guarantee someone will leave this thing in gear at the wrong time.

  • ctlctl Posts: 123
    edited April 17

    I have never owned a TL, but personally, I think the current generation TL (2009 - 2014, especially post 2012) actually looks quite a bit better (exterior wise) than the new TLX in many area (size, stance, and presence). Yes the TLX looks a bit better than TSX, but that's about it...

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 13,585

    The TL I like was the 2004-2008 vintage. I was behind one today (in my 2000 TL) and enjoyed the view. Also like the interior much better (plus I fit much better).

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,052

    @stickguy‌ - right on best looking was that generation - bmw and mb lovers like to use product codes- so the UA6-UA7

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,428

    @stickguy said: The TL I like was the 2004-2008 vintage.

    Agreed. The shield/beak front felt repulsive, at least at first. It kind of grew on a little bit, but was never in a beauty contest. TSX actually looked just a tad better in this beak thing than TL. I also liked previous TSX.

    BTW, TSX was a perfect size for me. Similar to older BMWs and Audis. I don't really carry passengers, but I like four doors (actually five). To me back seat size is not as essential, as driving experience, which those shorter wheelbase vehicles provided. Unfortunately, all those names grew to sizes reminding their bigger brothers 10 years ago. I think the whole category really shifted. When you get something like optioned-out 335, A4 or soon coming C-class, they aren't really entry level, they are still "sporty", but not really "sports". Same would be with CTS, TLX, or others.

    Unfortunately, their smaller siblings, which some would now argue as ELLPS, come mostly in FWD setups, which is off for traditionalists. It becomes fact of life. It is true that contemporary FWD is not your mother's FWD - current advances in torque handling made those cars much better to drive. Many have or will have AWD option and better engines, which mitigates some of the issue.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,644

    So this is a paddle shifter?

  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,487
    edited April 17

    @stickguy said:

    I owned an '05 TL for 6.5 years/85k trouble-free, fun and efficient miles. One of Honda/Acuras best designs imo (along with original Legend Coupe). Clean, elegant, sporty. I was so disheartened by the current design, did not consider it for even a moment. The toned down beak/shield is an improvement, but still wouldn't mind seeing it go the way of the Dodos... The TLX, from appearances, welcome back, Acura!

    I"ve not owned nearly as many cars as I'd like (darn family responsibilities and fiscal conservatism!), but my '88 Integra and '05 TL remain two of my faves.

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,048

    I like the interior of the new TLX, and I wonder if not having a shift lever will be a plus or a minus in attracting customers. At this point, I don't have any experience with "no shifter" so I'll go with being neutral on the subject.

    I am assuming the interior utilizes the upper and lower screen approach -- I run hot and cold on that, too, but probably more cold: I am more in favor of one screen generally speaking, but the TLX's interior does seem to send out most, if not all, of the queues that suggest it is a Premium car interior (an upgrade from my 2012).

  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,282

    Again, no condemnation of your love of Audis. Your experiences have just been different than mine.

    My experiences with Audi have all been positive. Every company can have a bad apple. The real goal should be to buy a vehicle that never gives a company a chance to establish their customer service levels, as you never have to visit them. That's what happened my first 4,100 miles in the perfect 2014 S4, but a day before I'm supposed to pick it up at the body shop, I'm told the dealer is finding the left front side of the vehicle out of alignment spec, enough out of spec that they can't adjust to meet spec.

    The accident was on the right side; this could spell trouble. Not Audi's fault of course, the Lexus driver is at fault. I will say I escaped the ordeal without as little as a bruise; the belt did what it's supposed to do. I'm told the tow truck could have caused the suspension damage.

    All the fluids had to be refilled & recharged (coolant, transmission, transmission coolant, AC system). The driver's seat belt has to be replaced (one-time use with significant impacts). The air box had to be replaced. Might end up being more than 17K when all is said and done; I think they should have totaled it; we'll see.

  • Michaell@EdmundsMichaell@Edmunds ColoradoPosts: 1,144

    @andres3 said:Might end up being more than 17K when all is said and done; I think they should have totaled it; we'll see.

    $17K in damage repairs is still only about 33% of the value of the car; not even close to the threshold used by most insurance carriers to write it off.

    michaell@edmunds.com

    Moderator, Prices Paid and Leasing Experiences

    2013 Hyundai Elantra GT / 2010 Mazda CX-7 GT / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,282

    @Michaell@Edmunds said: $17K in damage repairs is still only about 33% of the value of the car; not even close to the threshold used by most insurance carriers to write it off.

    Yes, but when you add in Diminished value of around 15%, Rental Car expenses of about $1,250, and who knows how much extra could be needed before all said and done. And if the vehicle isn't quite right after all that effort; what then?

    Basically looking at near $30K or 60%. Still, too low to total, but my opinion is generally that cars are unfixable from significant accident damage. Maybe this body shop will change my mind; I'm hoping!

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