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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,590

    @graphicguy said: As you note, however, perception is reality many times. The Genesis is a perfect example of that. I've yet to hear anyone state they went from the Mercedes or BMW dealership over to the Hyundai store to cross shop the 5/E/Genesis. On top of that, the new Genesis is quite the looker in its own right.

    Rick is a Realtor, his main clientele are people looking to purchase houses in the 500,000 to a Mill homes. Most are driving MB, BMW, Audi, Jag's etc,, When he take them out in his car, they are all impressed with the Genesis on fit and finish, ride and comfort. Now has he turned any of them to sell their cars for a Genesis, I doubt it. The people who can afford these cars have been buying them for years. Mark is a perfect example, he is an Audi guy, I doubt he ever looked at a Genesis before buying his S4. This doesn't mean those who have bought a Genesis didn't have a MB or BMW in the past.

    We all know that MB, BMW, Audi want the younger buyer, so if they are looking at a fully loaded Accord, then buying a A3 or 320 is within their reach...

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,106

    On the accord / cla comments - I was also very vocal in the past as accord better then tsx and entre TL- I would Also say its prob better in v6 loaded form then the overly cheap 320- or as bmw likes to call it the leaser dream-

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,590

    @sweendogy said: On the accord / cla comments - I was also very vocal in the past as accord better then tsx and entre TL- I would Also say its prob better in v6 loaded form then the overly cheap 320- or as bmw likes to call it the leaser dream-

    Mind showing where BMW has called the 320 a "leaser dream"? I highly doubt they ever called it that...

  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,325

    I like the TL, but I think the 3.7L needs a bit more juice. It's a fine engine, but I feel the weight of the TL and the larger engine when driving it. Also, the 6-speed auto seems like an antique, but it appears your real world mileage has bested the EPA estimates????

    The main two problems I had with the TL were:

    1) The exterior looks and style (or lack thereof) 2) The interior button layout and too many little buttons.

    If they listen to my recipe, they'll have a real winner:

    1. Boost HP and Torque 10-15%
    2. Drop 300 lbs.
    3. Fix the styling.
    4. Better button quantity and layout.
    5. More color selection (and better colors)
    6. Boost EPA mileage 15%
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,106

    "Mind showing where BMW has called the 320 a "leaser dream"? I highly doubt they ever called it that..." Bmw would never call it that, true they want you to think that you are getting a great lux car - 269 a month with 3k down for 36m/30k miles. Seems sweet until you see the lack of technology, power, lux vs a honda accord.

  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,325

    Worse still the 320 means you are likely getting a "lame" loaner car as a courtesy vehicle while getting your "free" BMW maintenance done.

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,590

    @andres3 said: Worse still the 320 means you are likely getting a "lame" loaner car as a courtesy vehicle while getting your "free" BMW maintenance done.

    Interesting comment coming from someone who never owned a BMW, just for the record, my loaner was a 328d, which had M sport package. The dealership I deal with had X1's, 328i, 328d's and a few X5's. No 320i's as loaners.

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,590

    @sweendogy said: "Mind showing where BMW has called the 320 a "leaser dream"? I highly doubt they ever called it that..." Bmw would never call it that, true they want you to think that you are getting a great lux car - 269 a month with 3k down for 36m/30k miles. Seems sweet until you see the lack of technology, power, lux vs a honda accord.

    The 320i is an entry level into a premium brand, just like the A3 is, however, the real difference is, the 320i isn't a smaller car like the A3 or CLA. It's the same F30 as the 328i which means you get a real back seat for two adults, something that the Audi and MB can not claim. This is what is setting BMW apart from Audi and BMW.

    When it comes to leasing, the unknown will take the 3K down and $269/m deal, since if they went to a toyota dealer that is what they would have leased a Camry LE for.

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,106

    We get the320 is a 3 series, I remember Infiniti had a g25 at one point- that didn't last for long. bmw is set apart because its competitive leases, not nothing more

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,404

    Possibly that impression of being a leaser dream comes from the automotive press, which has been sort of hammering the point:

    "With a $33,475 base price, the 320i will allow BMW to advertise more affordable base-model lease deals, potentially with comparable pricing to second-tier competitors--Motor Trend

    "BMW's new base 320i brings 3 Series ownership within reach of a lot more people than ever before" -- LeaseBusters

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  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,590

    The interesting thing is people who know all about BMW leases can lease a mid level 328i for around $300/m. In fact, on Bimmerfest one of the Sponsor's which is a BMW Dealer has a great lease on a 528i for $465/m. A friend just did a Euro Delivery on his M235i, ZERO down, and payments of $502/m with tax, MSRP was $49K selling price was $45K.. BTW, yes these leases had 7 MSD's.. Which is the smart way to go.. I'm told Audi doesn't do MSD's which is ashamed it's a win win both both Audi and customer.

    Now as I pointed out, Audi now has the A3, which will lease about the same.. Smaller car then a 320i...

  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 27,645

    Audi has an MSD program.

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  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,739

    @flightnurse said: The interesting thing is people who know all about BMW leases can lease a mid level 328i for around $300/m. In fact, on Bimmerfest one of the Sponsor's which is a BMW Dealer has a great lease on a 528i for $465/m. A friend just did a Euro Delivery on his M235i, ZERO down, and payments of $502/m with tax, MSRP was $49K selling price was $45K.. BTW, yes these leases had 7 MSD's.. Which is the smart way to go.. I'm told Audi doesn't do MSD's which is ashamed it's a win win both both Audi and customer.

    Now as I pointed out, Audi now has the A3, which will lease about the same.. Smaller car then a 320i...

    Except that the people BMW is targeting with a $319 lease deal on a 320i aren't the type that have the money to do multiple MSD's - they are going to have a hard time coming up with the $3800 needed to drive it away.

    The A3 and the CLS are not targeted against the 320 in their base form - the real competition will be here next year as the next 1 series.

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,590

    @robr2 said: Except that the people BMW is targeting with a $319 lease deal on a 320i aren't the type that have the money to do multiple MSD's - they are going to have a hard time coming up with the $3800 needed to drive it away.The A3 and the CLS are not targeted against the 320 in their base form - the real competition will be here next year as the next 1 series.

    This is true, but people just need to dig a little and save a bunch.

    So really there is no direct competitor for the 320i. I was looking at base price.

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,475
    edited May 18

    @sweendogy said: We get the320 is a 3 series, I remember Infiniti had a g25 at one point- that didn't last for long.

    It didn't stick because it had a pathetic engine and price and not enough price difference with G35/G37. From reports I read 320 engine is not bad at all and the pricing difference makes better sense.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 27,645

    I've leased both a BMW and Infiniti with payments in the $300s, and MSDs.

    ELLPS aren't just leased by strivers, seeking to stretch their budget. Plenty of car enthusiasts, just looking for good value for their money.

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  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,154

    well, the 320 and 328 have the same engine. One is just in a higher state of tune. So like having a few less standard features, it really is the same car. Heck, 1/2 the people that get a 328 probably would never be able to tell if they got a 320i motor by mistake!

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,404

    60 less HP though. I bet you'd notice :)

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 27,645

    Yeah.. 180 vs. 240

    But, when the E46 came in 325 or 330, the horsepower difference was 184 vs. 225. You could definitely tell the difference, but the 184 HP in the 325i certainly seemed adequate. I'm not a giant fan of the horsepower wars...

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