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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans



  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 9,625
    I wonder if the coarseness or shudder you are feeling is just the way the N20 Turbo 4 fires up. They probably keep it as thr default mode for fuel economy purposes.

    What's your take on the electric power steering?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,970
    Graphic the biggest issue I have with the start-Atop feature is the fact that the AC doesn't run, living in the Desert where the temps get to be as high as 115, having no AC at a stop-light would not be fun. Even though the feature can be over ridden would be a pain to remember to click the switch each time. I'm sure there is a company that will be able to reflash the computer to disable this feature soon.

    When BMW brings over their oil burner 3 series this will help with their CAFE # so BMW can do without the start-stop BS...

    NSX update, no news....
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,147
    The start-stop is not just for fuel economy. It's also an anti-polution control. Some countries in Europe have laws against idling too long. It wouldn't be BS if they could get it right......meaning invisible.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,970
    Now this might be true in Europe, however, that is not the case here in the US, the start-stop feature is all about the increasing the CAFE #.... I have to wonder how much does it increase them by?
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,989
    Even so, it would be a good feature, if only it didn't leave you baking in the sun.


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  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,147
    I thought I read somewhere where (in some cars with start-stop, don't know if BMWs or not) if the temp rises inside the car by X degrees the motor will start or the A/C will run off the battery for a short period to maintain comfort.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 8,701
    What's your take on the electric power steering?

    NYC...the steering I can say is "different". I really only spent maybe 45 minutes in the car (drove from the dealer to office, office to home, home to dealer). Did I like it as well as the steering in my 335i? Nope!

    But, the '12 328i is weighted differently, too. It doesn't feel linear in response, like the E90 or the S4 does. Those are more predictable where the E90 feels...not quite sure....."artificial" I guess would be the best way I could describe it.

    If the new 3's A/C runs off the battery if it gets too hot when stopped, I could see a problem where you're stuck by a long train, or in a big traffic jam where that would deplete your battery. So, now your steaming hot, and the car won't restart because the battery was depleted by the A/C.

    Usually, car companies think things through more thoroughly than BMW has thought this "start-stop" feature through. I still believe they are going to have to do some sort of update that allows you to turn the feature off permanently. Otherwise, their service depts are going to be flooded with complaints.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,147
    I could see a problem where you're stuck by a long train, or in a big traffic jam where that would deplete your battery. So, now your steaming hot, and the car won't restart because the battery was depleted by the A/C.

    Umm, I think the programming would be smarter than that. It would start your engine before any real depletion of the battery.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 4,156
    That's right. I think Graphic is simply projecting what his fears of what if it programmed incorrectly, rather than actual performance. I'm sure it is programmed to use stop/start only if rest of the systems is sound, not unconditionally at every stop. All it needs is a battery charge sensor programmed to into the feature.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.
    it's = it is, its = possessive for "it", they're = they are, their = possessive for they, here = not there, hear = receive and interpret sound waves

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 8,701
    dino....m6...I would hope that BMW has some sort of programming done on the new 3 that allows the car to start if the battery gets below a certain depletion level.

    However, given the harshness of the start/stop feature, it feels like it's half baked to begin with. So, I'm not really sure.

    In either case, now you're stuck with a car that's stuck in traffic or at a railroad crossing that shudders throughout the car every few minutes when it re-starts. Not very luxurious or sporty, let alone a behavior I'd want in a $45K-$50K car.
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,283
    edited July 2012
    I love how guys who are lux guys - but also want sport - opt for autos trans and are actually complaining about BMW Trying to save you an mpg or 2 with the auto start- if you don't like it press the button - hello- just like you would put on a seatbelt or Change the radio station. It's that easy- or you can complain that it's a " deal breaker" even thou it's just a button - act as If. I dont care if it's 15k or 50k it's not a big deal, and for a guy who spent 26 mins in the new BMW I would think you would look for such button before complaining about it, prob next to thr cruise control or maybe the trunk release.

    That being said - good comparison in consumer digest BMW 3 vs MB c, BMW wins by a point in new form but both are still behind the g, value being the biggest difference ( we already know this).
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,003
    That being said - good comparison in consumer digest BMW 3 vs MB c, BMW wins by a point in new form but both are still behind the g, value being the biggest difference ( we already know this).

    Of course the Subaru WRX is value, the Camaro is value, if all you want is to mash a pedal down and have it go fast...
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 9,625
    Somebody hacked your email again!

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 8,701
    Man, I'm really sorry about that. I did a little investigation. It was hacked somewhere in Austria, of all places. I think when I posted it here, in a public venue, that's when it was hacked. You'd think I'd learn my lesson.

    Anyway, send me one more email requesting a new email address if you're interested in having it. Again, apologies!
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 8,701 your breath. It's a hopeless cause. You and I agree, though.

    BTW....just saw an article stating that the new Nissan Z (which part of the Infiniti G is derived from) is going to shrink, move away from the Altima DNA, and sport a 4 cyl next iteration. Apparently, Nissan has seen the success of the BRZ and decided that's the direction they were going.

    The problem, where does that leave the G? They already tried to move it down in the food chain with a smaller motor, and failed at it. They can't move it up, as the M resides there (which has also been pretty dismal). Maybe Infiniti becomes strictly an SUV marketer? They've had success there.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,642
    . . . their service depts are going to be flooded with complaints.

    No doubt, but BMW has handily ignored all the complaints related to run-flat tires and the lack of dipsticks (at least in the engine compartment). There has never been a more arrogant automobile company.

    And why shouldn't they be? There's always more at the door waiting to shell out for whatever they're peddling in any given year -- fewer enthusiasts and people who care about actually driving the car, but ask them if they give a rip.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 8,701
    cdn.....couldn't agree more. That "start/stop" feature is probably minuscule in fuel/emissions savings. Start up is when the most emissions are emitted. So, now a BMW triples or quadruples the amount of starts its cars are creating.

    Add to that, the additional complexity, it becomes an answer to a question no one asked.

    But, you're right. They didn't care about the run flat tires, or no more oil dipsticks (in fairness, they aren't the only ones). So, this half baked and implemented feature with the "Start/stop" feature isn't likely to get them to change directions.

    Maybe that's what people want? As you say, they certainly aren't hurting for customers.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,970
    Graphic I learned my lesson about an account being hacked, I change my passwords weekly, since then no issues... BTW, what's the buzzing noise I keep hearing?

  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,283
    edited July 2012
    Does the article directly comment on the g or is this your spec- the g platform is
    Moving to MB btw. The Altima is fwd and uses a different transmissions. They might look alot alike but besides the same engine components on the 6, they are different. The chatter on the new g that they will employ a 4 is correct like BMW they are looking at a turbo 4. They are also talking up a supercar With a turbo 6.
    The small 6 is a failure for sure in my eyes - Shouid of went turbo 4 to begin with.

    The z- given the feedback on the brz - Nissan is right to look smaller and cheaper but unless quoted I would not make comments on what Infiniti is going to do Just because an article talked up the next z
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,789
    For me [ currently a BMW driver, with no dipstick
    and runflats ] it is more that I see nothing else
    that offers what I do want in a car, and does not
    also have at least a many 'drawbacks' as the BMW.
    - Ray
    Just 1 data point....
    2015 Charger R/T - yup, it's got a Hemi...
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,970
    Ray the most important data point really is, I don't give a flying F what others have to say about BMW's... Since most of these people secretly wish they had one.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 8,701
    FN.....this is the 2nd time in a month I've been hacked. Did a little investigative work, I was hacked from Austria, of all places. Every time I change my PW. However, I've had the same email address NYC is referring to for 17 years. t some point, unfortunately, I was bound to get hacked given the longevity of that address.

    I just changed email addresses, problem solved (for now).

    BTW....I find the buzzing noise fades into the background if you ignore it.

    ray....truth is, there's nothing that bugs me more than some poorly realized feature that has no real purpose in the car. Stop/start in the BMW defines that.

    Oil dipstick was replaced with an electronic one you can read on the dash. Run flats have become better. But, they always offered good handling. So, I could live with that, too.
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,283

    I find that some people post false statements about other brands, with no real proof.

    "For non-electric vehicles (called micro-hybrids,[1]) fuel economy gains from this technology are typically in the range of 5 to 10 percent." wiki - my guess is BMW and others are using this to help meet mpg requirements -so it does serve a propose to them.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,970
    Some one in Singapore tried to hack into my facebook account about 6 months ago. FB stopped them and then told me where in the world that person was from. It is a hassle to change PW all the time, but welcome to the 21st century!

    Regarding Run Flat, I like the current crop of run flat tires light years ahead then the first Gen. Just like the iPhone....

    FN who is traveling at 535mph, drinking Baileys and talking cars... Great way to spend a Friday afternoon.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 8,701
    FN....hopefully, you were in a Boeing 7xx at the time.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,970
    Graphic sorry to say, I was in a brand new A321 on US Airways. I fly a lot, and I prefer the star Alliance FF programs over say AA and One World. Sorry diverted from the main topic here. But have to say, I really like the new A321's that US has received in the last couple of months. They have WiFi which makes a 5 hour flight go by very quickly and I can get home work done too. Multi tasking is a must when one works full time (on the road) and going to school full time.

    Now back to cars, I had a 2012 Camry SE in Charlotte NC ( had to drive to High Point NC) the drive is roughly 2 hours (all depending on traffic.) so I had good butt time in this car. It had the enTune, very nice system, being that it was a rental there was limited access to what one can do, but over all was impressed with it. I'm anticipating the new Nissan Altima to hit the car rental lots soon, very promising to take over the top spot from the Camry.

    National been hyping the fact that you can rent the Toyota Avalon, however, I haven't seen one on a lot yet.

    The start-atop feature of the BMW's, suffer from the same issue as the first generation Prius, when you came to a stop the AC would stop running when the engine turned off. Of course that was fixed in the second generation. One has to wonder why didn't BMW figure that out, they do hot weather testing here in Arizona as well as Death Valley, Ca and Africa. As Graphic has stated, for a 45K car, they screwed up on that one. I'm sure other manufacture's will be offering the start-stop feather soon to raise their CAFE #....
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,642
    edited July 2012
    I ain't going. I've had more than a few trans-Pac flights that included several seconds of free-fall, sufficient to make the, let's just say "experienced" first class flight attendants look pretty worried. The 747 can eat such stuff up all day (and night) long.

    I feel strongly that that's the proper approach, given some of the "odd" incidents that Airbus has endured. However, as always, my corporate situation has driven me to positions that I would have thought impossible a few decades ago. I'm now flying US Airways and the dreaded Airbus.

    Comparing the beat up B17s and B29s during WWII to the fly-by-wire fiascoes that Airbus has served up looks to me like a slam-dunk choice.

    Either way, flying is way safer than almost any form of transit. It's all relative.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,681
    It is a hassle to change PW all the time, but welcome to the 21st century

    I use "Last Pass"...a password manager. So I sign once into the browser then forget about logging into sites. I have one long password remembered (as my master password) and every other site has a different huge one that I don't have to worry this: 2ESwxN9yB^6gn639&N.

    Not so bad in the 21st century :)
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,970
    CDN when it comes to aviation my first love, each manufacture has had their issues, however, as you pointed out, flying is much safer then any other form of transportation.

    I drove the 330 today (first time in two weeks) and what a huge difference between that and the Camry.... It is nice to drive the latest and greatest but it is even better to drive a true sports car.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 8,701
    Ivan....thanks. I'll check out the PW manager software.

    FN....I'm a Million Miler with Delta and a 1K with United. Have bemoaned the tricks airlies pull to cut service and passenger comfort. As CDN says, it's one of the safest ways to travel, though.
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