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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans



  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 41,133
    Are getting to be standard equipment on commercial vehicles... so, the insurance companies think they are useful.

    I really like them for parallel parking. Being able to put the car within one inch of the car behind me translates into one less positioning maneuver, getting into a tight space.. It's also good for backing into spaces in parking lots.. I can put it right on the rear line, if I choose...


    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Waleska, GeorgiaPosts: 801
    Let me narrow it down rather than making a blanket statement that all Rain-Sensing Wipers are ridiculous and useless....

    The way that Mazda has implemented Rain-Sensing Wipers on my 2012 CX-9 Grand Touring is ridiculous and useless!

    The INTERMITTENT position on the wiper control stalk is replaced with the AUTO setting. But there is still a manually adjustable dial to increase/decrease the speed of the wipers just like on every other car! The Rain-Sensor only activates the ON/OFF function automatically, it does not modify the speed of the wipers to correspond with how light/heavy it's raining!
    2015.5 Volvo S60 T6 Drive-E Platinum, 2012 Mazda CX-9 GT
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Waleska, GeorgiaPosts: 801
    I haven't had to parallel park here in Georgia in at least 10 years or more....I honestly can't remember ever doing it! But when I visit my cousin in Los Angeles, I always end up parallel parking all the time (especially in Pasadena)! She has an '08 Lexus GX470 and it side mirrors tilt down in Reverse along with the Backup Camera coming on and it's actually very handy. If nothing else, it keeps me from curbing the chrome wheels!
    2015.5 Volvo S60 T6 Drive-E Platinum, 2012 Mazda CX-9 GT
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,132
    What a blanket statement and pretty silly too. Do you have any proof of what you're saying? I ran over a small Weber grill that my wife had conveniently placed right behind my car one time. Could have been a small child and I was PAYING ATTENTION but absolutely could not see it in any of my three mirrors or by cranking my head around. Just because you think you are perfect doesn't mean you could never make a mistake or see something right at your bumper. Try placing something very short right behind your car and see if you can see it in your mirrors or by turning your head. I think you'll see where a camera could be useful IN CONJUNCTION with mirrors, etc.
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,282
    Oh, did the weber make it? Best grills on earth.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,681
    I had something very similar happen except with a small child (no body was hurt).

    I was in our mini-van that has rear-sonar. We were leaving a shopping center and after all the kids finally got in and were strapped up I looked all around and put it in reverse...I got the loud solid tone. I put it back in park and waited and a small child walked by...they were just walking into the store ahead of their parents and stopped to wait...
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,132
    Things happen, a back-up camera would have helped a lot in that situation. I guess you must have been "picking your nose" if you know what I mean and have been following along.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,132
    Crushed. Poor Smokey Joe!
  • Hello Folks..Just came across a pre-owned 2013 328i deal. It has 21000 miles in ~1yr and it was sold to the dealer in a Manufacturer Vehicle Auction. It is Lux line+Prem Pack+Tech Pack+Cold weather pack+Lighting pack+Driver Assis Pack and the dealer has very good price tag on the vehicle. Any suggestions/experience with Manufacturer Vehicle? I really love the deal, however, I am not familiar with Manufacturer Vehicle handling..?? Are 21000miles/yr too much? Is it a good call to buy the vehicle..? Any suggestions would be appreciated..!! I'm California.
  • scwmcanscwmcan Niagara, CanadaPosts: 399
    Are you sure that's what the dial does? On our 3 it controls the sensitivity to the rain, not the speed of the intermittent sweep, I would be surprised if the dial on the CX-9 was different ( but am not saying it isn't since I don't know from personal experience like with the 3).
  • maybe it's a tail-risk event that you hit a kid, but for me a few hundred dollars more is something i'd gladly pay for, even if they made it standard and embedded it in the price.

    if i'm spending mid 30s for a car, a few hundred bucks more ain't gonna matter.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,857
    Has anyone here ever actually used their back up cam, and after using their eyes (turning your head to look back), and then looked at the screen and seen something they missed?

    Yes. I have a 2011 Explorer and can't see via the mirrors or looking out the rear window anything shorter than 3' tall for about 20'. I saw my 5 YO nephew there yesterday after walking around the back of the car to get in.

    Yes he should know better but IMHO, the backup camera did it's job.
  • kmurkmur Posts: 36
    "if i'm spending mid 30s for a car, a few hundred bucks more ain't gonna matter."

    This attitude is why the price of cars keep going up and why so many people are so deeply in debt. Lots of different "few hundred" mores, when combined together, start to add up to real money.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 6,127
    Exactly! I think it's ridiculous the average American spends mid 30's for an average new car.

    A few hundred here, a few hundred there, pretty soon your over 30K average transaction price.

    Same with weight, a few pounds here, a few pounds there, suddenly a small car weighs 2 tons.
  • "Exactly! I think it's ridiculous the average American spends mid 30's for an average new car"

    Ten years ago we were spending mid twenties for an average car-its called inflation, basic economics.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,857
    Exactly! I think it's ridiculous the average American spends mid 30's for an average new car.

    Says the man who just dropped 40 large on a new car...... :)
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 4,089
    Biggest part of the "few hundred" thing comes becasue of leases/loans. A few hundred is "only" a "a few buck per month". At low interest rates, $1000 in price translates into around $20 per months on a 60 month loan and can be even less on a lease, especially if it is subsidized by inflated residual. I can hear that salesman saying "you have 20 bucks, don't you?

    Nothing helped the manufacturers increase the prices more than captive financing. Those subsidies partially offset the effective price increases (overall cost of car probably did not go as much up as the stickers if we compare it with loans prior interest rate bubble of 2000s), but create a dangerous situation when the rates go up (ad they will). We will be stuck with much higher prices then.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.
    it's = it is, its = possessive for "it", they're = they are, their = possessive for they, here = not there, hear = receive and interpret sound waves

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 8,487
    dino...couldn't agree more. The subsidized financing is what allows manufacturers to sell more and more cars, which masking the price increases.

    I can see my own automotive trend over the years. I always put a budget on what I'd pay for a car, based on what I could afford. First, (probably in the late '80s when I bought my first new car) it was $30K. That amount would net me a very nice car.

    In the late '90s it balooned to $40K.

    Now, I'm well into the $50K budget.

    However, I expect more now than I did when I bought my first car, too. Back then, all I wanted was a comfortable, reliable car (which meant a Honda or a Toyota). Now, I want performance. I want luxury. I want reliability. I want all the tech stuff. I want the state of the art suspensions and transmissions. I want good build quality. I want top notch materials. I want styling. I want good fuel efficency. All that costs something.

    That leads me to the most recent cars I've had....BMW, Audi, Acura.

    Some embody those traits better than others. As of right now, I'm understanding what something like a TL has that I've missed from the German marks. Of course, you won't win many drag races with a TL like you will with an S4, either.

    I'm betting that at some point, with the 3 series at least, the Acuras and the Lexi will be able to make another inroad to the German territory (as they did in the '80s) given the price deltas and the softening of the 3.
  • tifightertifighter WAPosts: 1,474
    Ten years ago we were spending mid twenties for an average car-its called inflation, basic economics.

    I don't know, I bought a new Accord EXL a month ago with heated leather, roof, LDW, FCW, backup and blind spot camera, etc. 39 mpg on a highway trip last Friday. Paid under $26k. Seems like there is good value in the market if you look for it.

    15 Leaf / 15.5 XC70 T6

  • I bought the same car ten years ago for 22800 out the door.
    EXL 4CYCL.
  • Secondly, ten years ago I bought a TL Type S brand spanking new for 29,050. Try buying a base TL for that today.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,857
    Paid under $26k. Seems like there is good value in the market if you look for it.

    Nobody said there wasn't value out there but the average price paid for a 2013 model is $31K.
  • kmurkmur Posts: 36
    Passats are also still very good buys.

    But this thread is on entry level lux performance sedans. Prices for these type of cars have not been stable. Inflation, coupled with new content is the reason. The new A4 I just picked up is a rolling WiFi hotspot for crying out loud. The prices can quickly shoot through the roof because often enough, your "must have" will be bundled up in a $3K to $4k option package. BMW is notorious for doing this, but Audi is guilty as well.
  • tifightertifighter WAPosts: 1,474
    $22,800 in 2003 is $28946 in 2013 dollars. The 13 has more space, is safer, better equipped and gets better mileage.

    I bought cars 10 years ago too. I'm happy with what I got for my money in 2013.

    15 Leaf / 15.5 XC70 T6

  • tifightertifighter WAPosts: 1,474
    I realize what the thread is about. What was said was-

    I think it's ridiculous the average American spends mid 30's for an average new car.

    I'm just saying that a well-equipped Accord is a mid-twenties car and is the epitome of an average new car. I think higher average transaction prices are as much on the consumer as the manufacturer...they are buying more CUVs with higher margins, they are more brand conscious, etc. The market just continues to evolve.

    15 Leaf / 15.5 XC70 T6

  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,132
    According to the Auto Dealers Association the average transactions as of Nov 2012 was right at $30k. That is a not mid-thirties.
  • tifightertifighter WAPosts: 1,474
    No argument here.

    15 Leaf / 15.5 XC70 T6

  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 6,127
    The S4 is far from an average car though :)

    I did find it ridiculous that a Rav 4 V6 with a Corolla-like interior cost as much as my new A3 2.0T in '06. Of course, the other side of that coin is that the Audi was a ridiculously great value back then ($30K out the door).
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,946
    "A few hundred here, a few hundred there, pretty soon your over 30K average transaction price. "

    For 24K the mid-level Nissan Altima comes with a back up camera. I know that back up camera will be mandatory soon, so they will be in all cars are standard equipment.

    There will be always people thinking they are superior drivers, they don't need silly things like back up camera's. I have to say, I'm spoiled, when I drive Ricks Genesis I like the back up camera, also some of the rental cars I have had lately have had them, i.e the full loaded 2014 Chevy Impala LTZ2 I had. I was backing out a space and the back up camera allowed me to see to the left and right of me (a truck and Van on either side) so I was able to see what I was doing.

    I like them and welcome them into the cars.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,132
    I know it's a bit off topic but could you give a short impression of your time with the new Impala?
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