Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
a) to make a statement
b) for the tax credit and other perks
c) because they’re environmentally friendly
d) to save money at the pump
e) to be the first to own new technology
Please submit a few sentences to support your response no later than Friday, January 27, 2006. Be sure to include your Forums username. Thanks! (wclarke@edmunds.com)
1. The HCH comes equipped with 15" wheels as opposed to the regular Civic which comes equipped with 16" wheels. My instinctive thought is that this must be more efficient. And yet, this doesn't make sense to me. It seems to me that the larger wheels would have less rolling resistance and for every rotation of the drivetrain, the 16" wheels would have moved you farther than the 15" wheels.
2. The HCH comes equipped with a 1.3L gas engine, while the regular Civic comes equipped with a 1.8L gas engine. I wonder how much of the improved MPG is directly attributable to the smaller engine rather than the electric motor assist.
Thoughts?
2. Yes a lot of the mileage is from the smaller engine. In dicussions a long time ago with some other hybrids the mileage increase due to the smaller engine was around 30%. Also in the past Honda would put a really tall gear on the "HF" or "FE" models and gain another 15%. The CVT has a pretty wide ratio already and the 15% might or might not be there. If Honda offered a ICE only 1.3 liter engine and it gained 30% over the 1.8's EPA of 30/40 in otherwords 39/52 and could be produced without the hybrid cost bogey, what do you think it would do to HCH sales?
Cheers,
MidCow
P.S on FCD; some also call it Fuel Consumption Display.
Larger wheels in general are heavier than the smaller wheels they replace and this results in greater rotational mass. The amount of weight in motion is far more important than rolling resistance.
If you purchased the hybrid civic for sporty handling and bling bling looks then chrome 18's with spinners is what you need. :shades:
If you purchased the hybrid for mpg, then stick with 15's. Borbet LS or CA would look decent and would not have the center cap of the OEM wheels that is susceptible to damage and loss over time.
How much do the wheels weigh and what type of tires do you have installed?
The wider tires have more rolling resistance and drag, and therefore negatively affect fuel economy. Thus, the choice for 15" wheels with "taller, narrower" tires over 16" wheels with a wider, lower profile.
It's well known in the business that wider, lower profile rubber is good for handling, and not good for fuel economy. Weight is a function not just of the tire, but of the wheel - which is why the Hybrid gets the lightest combination in the line - 15" alloys.
miles driven: 12,509
gallons used: 249.4
LMPG: 50.1
geography: Western NY
driving style: very conservative, not your "go
with the flow" type driver, you'll see me in the right lane of the interstate with the cruise at 60, rarely exceed 70.
repairs: one flat tire
car strong points: fuel economy, tight ride
weak points: takes too long for car to warm up
so that Auto Stop engages(this has
been reduced 50% with block heater)
mpg tripmeter useless
Overall satisfaction: high
I feel like the headrest is pushing my head forward... it's not very comfortable. :confuse:
In 2005 and 2006 Volvo has lower profile tires (I think 205/55-16) on 16" wheels as the base V70 tire/wheel, and the EPA highway est was 28 mpg. This supports the hypothesis that the 195/65-15 has lower rolling resistance than the wider, lower profile tires on the next larger wheel. These two tires differ only 0.4% in overall diameter.*
The degree of "openness" of the wheel can affect wind resistance. In the Tour de France time trials (solo racing) many cyclists use a solid rear wheel instead of spoked. The air flows smoothly over the solid wheel. They don't use this on the front because of control problems due to cross winds. During group racing they use spoked wheels front and rear because the extra control is necessary in a group, and wind resistance is much less of a factor because riders draft off each other.
I'd say that Honda picked the stock wheel for the HCH for very good reasons. I would learn to like them as being designed for a specific function--fuel economy.
*Calculations
195/65-15 overall dia = (195mm)(1in/25.4mm)(0.65)(2) + 15 in = 25.0 inch
205/55-16 overall dia = (205)(1/25.4)(0.55)(2) + 16 = 24.9 inch
Thx.
Marc
A note from down under (Australia)!
Hybrids have been in Australia for some time now - over 10 years in fact, but for the most part they have been purchased by local councils and utilities. We had the Honda Insight first, then the Prius and now the 2006 HCH. However...with gas prices rising from $6.00 per gallon to $9.00 later this year, interest in hybrids is really starting to grow. Not so much on the environment side of things...the air is pretty clean down this neck of the woods, but more for saving money.
I've been reading all the posts I can from around the world, and without doubt the US is the most active.
At this point I'd just like to say that I recently purchased a 2006 HCH, with which I am extremely happy. It amuses me greatly when I read a negative report about hybrids, saying that they don't get great fuel economy. Well gues what, if you drive like a maniac...you won't. It's nice to drive a fast car from time to time...and feel the power, but these days there's not really much point. You see, in Australia we not only have radar, but we have fixed (in a parked car) and mobile speed cameras - and cameras at nearly every intersection. Like crime...speeding dose not pay in Australia!
Anyway...back to the HCH. My last car was also a Honda, the Accord 2.4l. A very nice car indeed. But I seemed to be always driving so gingerly to save money on gas that it made me wonder why have a car that can go so quickly. So I then started looking at smaller engines...1.8...1.5...1.3 etc. At the end of the day the Civic seemed the best bet. Now when you do all the sums...especially here in Aus with gas at $6.00 per gallon, the difference in price between the HCH and the standard starts to look like not that much.
And now that I am actually doing a few miles I've got to say that this is a really nice car. Surprisingly quick off the mark, well appointed, quite, handles well and regularly returns in excess of 50mpg in very heavy freeway and city driving - I'm one happy camper.
Reading the US forums you seem to be very spoilt for choices, and expect a lot from your cars. This is the way of the future and things will only get better (although they're pretty good now.
Just think how your little grips about this and that with hybrids will pale in insignificance when gas hits $7-8 a gallon. Tell me then that they won't be the best thing since sliced bread. Higher../.much higher fuel prices are on the way, and things won't be going "back to normal".
Nice talking to ya!
Greetings to you,
I am glad you like your new HCH. It seems to be quite popular in the USA as well. I for one have felt Australians were the ones with the choices. You can buy a midsize or small PU with a very economical diesel engine. There are many in the US that would love to have a smaller PU that gets 35-45 MPG on diesel. I guess we just wait and be envious of our neighbors that have all the choices.
Have a great day down under.
PS
A close friend is leaving tomorrow for your great country. He is doing a series of piano concerts in Perth.
Yes you are right. We have a very good selection of PU's (Ute's - utilities) to choose from in Australia. It just always appeared that the US had a larger...or different range of cars with better features than in Aus. It is also true that we have a large range of small diesel engine cars too. Although diesel engine cars are not that popular to to perceived problems with noise and polution.
I mean...after all, we've just got inflatable rubber tyres and refrigerators!!?
No, seriously we do have many differnt models to the US.
Perth is a beautiful city, and I'm sure your friend will enjoy it greatly. Get him to try a pizza. Australia seems to be more famous for pizza's than Italy!
I am sure he will. I would love to spend a couple months visiting your country. Everything I hear from those that visit is positive. Have fun with your new car.
I've had my 2006 HCH w/nav for about a month now and am enjoying it. My previous car, a 2002 Honda Accord V6 was a real treat but I decided that it was just time to go green. My wife has a 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid and she said that she would no longer sleep with me unless I was a hybrid kinda guy. Okay, you win, darlin'.
It was a bit of a shock to go from 3.0L to 1.3L but I'll live. Actually, it's rather entertaining to play with the MPG meters and relearn how to drive. I live in Los Angeles and that is rather hard to do here.
Usually, in aggressive LA traffic, I get about 36MPG. One morning I decided to try a maximum economy run to work (about 7 miles away) and ended up with 59.8MPG. This stuff is very educational!
My biggest gripe is the slight yellow tint to the windows. Okay, call me the Princess and the Pea, but it bugs me. It makes everything look like a smoggy day in Los Angeles. If I wanted everything to look yellow, I would be a pro-smog advocate. Carcinogenic hydrocarbons, OH YEAH!!!
Cost of gasoline is a really silly reason for buying a hybrid these days for most people. At the yearly mileage I drive, it's gonna take about 20 years before I break even! The real point is that the world is just plain gonna run out of gas and unless we want that to happen real soon, we all better come to our senses.
When we do run out of gas, it's gonna take a really long time to take a solar powered blimp to visit you in OZ. The world is going to be much different! Mel Gibson, Road Warrior, true story yet to happen???
One interesting car thing that those not in the US get to enjoy is early introduction of new models. Japanese car makers often try out new models in places outside the US to see how they work. Before the Toyota Celica was introduced to the US, it spent 7 years being tested in Japan, Australia, and Canada. So those in OZ probably got to try the HCH before anyone in the US.
Bit of a chuckle while we're on the subject... the other day I walked to lunch near where I work in Hollywood, California. I passed a parked Hummer H1 Turbo. The personalized California license plate read "7 MPG". I don't think you'll find the owner on this forum.
Have fun, be safe mate.
Like you, I have some VERY heavy traffic on my daily work commute. 30 miles each way...and very congested. Nevertheless I'm averaging 50mpg (5.2 litres per 100 kilometres). I know...it's a stupid way to look at fuel consumption, and I still prefer to think in mpg. Also...remember that there is a difference between the imperial gallon and the US gallon. Even so...not bad. The HCH is really teaching me how to drive for best consumption. The instant MPG readout is great, and helps to encourage you to have a very light foot on the gas.
Without doubt...petrol is running out and will get more expensive. We are now receiving reports in Australia(almost on a daily basis) that the massive reserves of oil that we were all led to believe existed, was a lie! There is some hope with ethanol from sugarcane, which we have heaps of in northern Australia.
My previous car was a Honda Accord 2.4l, which I really loved, but I guess the drop in power was not as much as yours.
I must say that I hadn't noticed the tinting of the windows, but I have now had them tinted anyway(like most Australian's - it's very hot in the summer over here!)
My wife has a V8 Landrover Discovery, but it is on LPG (Liquid Petrolium Gas), and runs quite cheaply.
Happy driving">
Even if we do wait, does anyone know what the new features will be? We've heard there will be some new color choices, but don't know what they'll be. No chance they'll be a sunroof option or leather interior, is there?
Eric
I had a feeling a sunroof or leather would be asking too much. I think DH would be disappointed if we went through with the 2006 and then found out it was being offered in black or red in the 2007 model the very next month (those are his top color choices, I actually kinda dig the magnetic pearl that's out now).
I'm surprised I can't find any info on when the 2007 model will be available.
You get only 15-inch wheels and other weight saving items in order to keep the weight down and the MPG up.
------------------
A national finance magazine is looking to interview consumers who are looking to purchase a hybrid vehicle and are looking at it from a financial standpoint, hoping to save money from the high cost of fuel. Please send an e-mail to ctalati@edmunds.com no later than Saturday, June 10, 2006 by 5:00 PM PT/8:00 PM ET containing your daytime contact information and the hybrid vehicle you are considering.
Thanks,
Chintan Talati
Corporate Communications
Edmunds.com
Just like my 2002. Insight that I am selling right now...
Buying a used car is the best financial decision regardless of what you buy, and is not hybrid specific.
If you are saying the more expensive hybrid option will not pay for itself is not necessarily true either.
A person who usually takes short trips would take longer to recover the $ difference vs someone with a longer commute. It also greatly depends on how the vehicle is driven and other conditions such as terrain, etc.
rkratzer I was also offered the additional warranty.
I didn't think it was a good deal.
I couldn't disagree more. Hondas and Toyotas that are on the used market pretty much fetch the same price as their new counterparts. They hardly lose value at all in the first few years of ownership.
The last Rav4 I traded in was a 2003, with three years of wear and tear and around 30,000 miles on it. They up and sold it in less than a week and had it listed for $1K less than I paid for it. This may be only one example, but by and large, this is what happens in the used car market with Hondas and Toyotas.
Unless you are making lots of short trips, in which case the mileage will be much less.
gauge control module (instrument panel lower gauge assembly)may cause your vehicle’s average fuel
mileage to incorrectly reset.”
I finally got the service done June 16 and was a block from the dealership when I noticed not only had my trip meters been reset, but so had the odometer!
I drove back to the dealership and the service dept. said, "there isn't anybody around here any more that calibrates those things. We put a sticker on the inside of the door and we'll keep a record of it here."
This sounded a bit fishy to me. Anyone else have a similar experience when going in for the update?
I'm going to contact the state DoT to see what they have to say about it. I would ASSUME the dealership would be required to report it to them.
What happens if some unscrupulous soul removes the sticker? Is mileage tied into the VIN somehow?
I still don't know if this was an oversight or whether it is impossible to advance a new odometer.
The dealer did note the pre-replacement mileage on the work order. I'm saving it because at some point I might have to certify on some DMV form that the odometer hasn't been tampered with. It should be an acceptable explanation.
Guess that goes with the post on rear-end collisions.
I am currently averaging 52 mpg on my tortured, street-level, stop & go commute from Boston to Framingham, and I only have 5K on the odometer, so it will continue to improve till around 10K. Of course, I can do considerably worse if I drive like an idiot, but why would I?