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Ferrari-the Ultimate classic (Ferrari Lovefest Topic)

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  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,596
    Even if some of us were to make friends with a knowledgeable Ferrari Technician I doubt we could afford the California Spider or 365 Daytona we lust for.

    Let's talk about Ferraris that might be available in decent condition with reasonable mileage on a budget of say $40k.

    Here are some that I'm aware of:

    308 GTB/GTS/Mondial
    330 GTE (2+2)
    365/400 GT 2+2
    Dino 308 GT/4
    328 GTB

    Not a very long list is it? Any comments additions or subtractions are welcome. Feel free to tell me if you think the whole idea of an "affordable" Ferrari is a mirage, whatever, let's discuss.

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    A great Driving one, even if its a bit ugly to some and will never be a high buck car is the 365GTC/4

    A 2+2 Daytona. Quite scarce.. but it is a Daytona in drag...

    Hell.. a 328 without ABS is easily doable in your range too.

    Bill
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,536
    You forgot the 76-80 400i and the 250GTE 2+2, also pretty "cheap" for a Ferrari.

    Also, in a couple more years the 1985-91 Testarossa prices will be pretty depressed. They are losing about 10% a year right now.

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  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,596
    I can't believe I forgot the 250GT2+2, an early favorite of mine. It's more or less the same as a 330 GTE.

    Brentwood, this week's AUTOWEEK has an item about a 365 GTC with a convertible "chop-job" selling for I think around $28k.

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    A mere $28K?

    Id avoid it. The idea of someone cutting up one of those cars... I bet its as stable as a 356 speedster without floorpans.

    Bill
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,536
    You mean you saw a 356 that still had floorpans?

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  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Posts: 1,704
    Why? Did the Porsches from the 50s and 60s have an early reputation for bad rusting?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,536
    I think the Italians actually invented rust right after WW II, and licensed it to the Germans in the 50s and 60s.

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  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,596
    wasn't it? Before that you could lose the entire front suspension of your 911 to the Rust Monster.

    To be fair everything rusted badly in those days
    but Porsches were particularly notorious as I recall.

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • tsaupe1tsaupe1 Posts: 166
    Actually rust was an ancient Roman invention. However, the recipe was lost after the Vandal invasion of 22AD and only rediscovered after WWII.

    On a more serious note, When the Ferrari market went stratospheric in the 1980's and anything with a Cavallino Rampante on it was worth a million bucks, alot of the less desirable cars got cut up and rebodied as spyders and GTOs.

    250 GTEs in particular became fake 250 GTO's. Too bad, they are such nice cars in their own right. So the chopped 365 GTC isn't that surprising. I doubt, now that the market has come back to earth, that any of these cars are going to sell for what the conversion cost. Assuming that the work was quality, which is always an "iffy" assumption.

    Tom
  • dgraves1dgraves1 Posts: 414
    Does a Fiat Dino count as a low cost Ferrari? I saw one advertized for mid $20K a few weeks ago.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,536
    No, it's a Fiat through and through but it does get a boost by the association with Ferrari, wherein Fiat got to produce the Jano-designed V-6 so that Ferrari could satisfy homologation rules for racing.

    The first V-6 engines, the 2.0 liters, are junk and make excellent boat anchors. The 2.4 engines are much much better, and tucked into the Coupe body you get a very interesting piece of autombobile for not much money, maybe $12K-15K tops. The Spiders cost more money, upwards of $25K or more for a nice one, and that's a lot to spend for a Fiat. But the Spiders are so much more attractive than the Coupes that they might be worth it. Only 424 Spiders were made in 2.4 liter I believe, so it's slim pickins'.

    So to my mind, if you want one of these, buy a nice 2.4 Spider or forgeddaboudit!!

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  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,596
    I prefer the Fiat Dino Spider's style to that of the Ferrari Dino. Although I really like both.

    Too bad about the motors, Shifty

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,536
    The Spider is beautiful, really beautiful. The coupe is an "acquired taste" at best.

    Yeah, well, sometimes these low production alloy engines just don't work out,especially if they are putting out some HP.

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  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Something about Fiat buyers and Ferrari engines does scare me a touch tho... haha.

    I mean, I could just see it "A Tune-Up is HOW MUCH????"

    Bill
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,536
    I actually KNOW that! It's $750 for a Ferrari V6

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  • speedshiftspeedshift Posts: 1,598
    Just imagine what you would pay if you had to buy EIGHT spark plugs.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,536
    I think the labor is for all the fussing you have to do with valve clearances and carburator settings.

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  • speedshiftspeedshift Posts: 1,598
    Do pre-electronic ignition Ferraris have a dual point distributor? How often do you replace the timing belt, or is it a chain? Is there anything else that gets replaced or tweaked that wouldn't get attention on a Chevy? No loaded questions here, just curious.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    That cheap? Really?

    Wait... a 246 Dino isnt $750 is it? If so... :)

    HELL of a lot cheaper than a 2000GS tune-up. Those Baby Octopuses dont work cheap!

    Bill
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,536
    Well that's what the book says. You have to remember a 1970 car is pretty primitive by modern standards.

    As for "tweaking", I know that valve adjustments are required often and they are tedious (shim method). Also balancing a bunch of Webers isn't any fun. Parts tend to be expensive as well. You could easily pay $100 for a drive belt.

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  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    But better than a 348!

    Valve adjustements? Every 3K in the 356s!

    Bill
  • ghuletghulet Posts: 2,628
    I loved this car as a teenager ('80s) and remember seeing a convertible in a mall 'drop off circle', running, with nobody inside. The friend I was with and I just looked at each other, grinning, apparently without the sack to 'take it away'. I guess I don't regret that decision.

    I know these aren't the fastest, most beautiful or most rare Ferrari, but I do love them, I guess for their styling restraint (especially versus the Testarossa), the fact that they're inexpensive (relatively, to purchase, anyway) and that they have four seats (not a plus for most Ferraris, I realize).
  • merckxmerckx Posts: 565
    I agree;I think it is a very pleasant-looking car.It's not as dynamic as the two place "door-stop"308s,348s,etc.,which is probably why I like it. It's got a bit of restraint. Not many agree;I understand used ones are surprisingly affordable.
    But those overly low-slung coupes I often find to be just a bit ridiculous,even though we car lovers are supposed to be mad for them.

    I think a Mondial 2+2 would be a great way for a working joe to have a Ferrarri.
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Posts: 1,704
    I noticed long ago that every Mondial has the exact same outside door handles as the Alfa Spider. Any reason for this?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,536
    Italians love beauty and spread it around?

    The big trap with Mondials is that you have the same, or worse, maintenance costs than with the sexy Ferraris, but none of the resale or investment value. I believe that to service a Mondial you take the engine OUT. You know that's not cheap and you haven't even done the service yet!

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  • speedshiftspeedshift Posts: 1,598
    Sounds like a candidate for "enemies of the (relatively) poor".

    Not a Ferrari but I saw an ad for a 1969 Lambo Espada with 41k for $26,500. If you squint it looks a little like a '71 Mustang Mach 1. Is this a snare and a delusion to the unwary or a nice car to have in your garage? Might be worth the money just to be able to roll it out to your driveway and slowly and publicly wash it.
  • tsaupe1tsaupe1 Posts: 166
    I'm not sure about having to remove the engine to service a Mondial. I looked at several coupes prior to buying my GT4 and, if memory serves correctly, there was just as much room around the engine as in mine. Plugs, belts and most things are pretty available either from the top or through the passenger side wheel well.

    Regarding Speedshift's questions on maintenance, The pre-electronic V8's have dual point distributors, so yes, four sets of points. The belts should be replaced every five years or 15,000 miles. And yes, it's a belt not a chain from the GT4 onwards.

    Off subject, I, too, always thought the Lamborghini Espada was a beautiful car. However, from what I've heard, Lamborghini's make Ferrari's look like maintenance free motor cars!
  • tsaupe1tsaupe1 Posts: 166
    I'll bet the door handles on the Mondial are the same as the Alfa. The latches on my Dino are Fiat. I think they're the same as the Fiat X1.9. Another Bertone design.

    I'm sure if they were proprietary designs, the car would have cost an extra $2000.

    Tom
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,536
    Alfa door handles are beautiful. You couldn't get much better than that anyway.

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