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Ferrari-the Ultimate classic (Ferrari Lovefest Topic)

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  • xkssxkss Posts: 722
    They will have a new Ferrari F430 GTC next year, but will it be reliable?
  • Yes I'm still alive, just haven't posted in a while. '87 328GTS (black metallic/tan) is bought, from Sport Auto in NC, and having its 30K spa treatment right now. PPI at Ferrari of Atlanta showed great compression/leakdown results, and the service history looks good. I'm hoping to have it out here in San Diego the first week in January.

    I did end up focusing on the 328 over the 348 or 355, although I could have stretched into the 355. This left me a decent cash cushion (I hope) for any initial stuff that needs sorting out.

    Anyone reading this who is wavering between a Porsche and a Ferrari needs to actually drive both. They exist in two different universes.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,379
    The "1962 Ferrari Spider" featured in this ad from HMN appears to be a much sought after 250 Spider California yet the words "Spider California" are not mentioned nor is the S/N, an essential reference for the serious collector of classic Ferraris. In fact the information in the ad is quite sketchy and the price at $69k is suspiciously low.

    image
    I'm betting it's a clone or maybe worse a Corvette based replicar. :mad:
  • tsaupe1tsaupe1 Posts: 166
    on the 328. I hope you enjoy yours as much as I enjoy mine. By the way, only 45 were built in Nero Metallico, you and I now account for two. Andys120, my guess is a clone probably on a Corvette base. The body looks suspiciously bulbous to me and that price wouldn't put a down payment on a real California Spyder. Nearly any 250 series spider is going to go for at least twice that. New Year's wishes to everyone.
  • Thanks tsaupe. How did you get the production figures for that paint code? I have Keith Bluemel's Original Ferrari V-8 book -- gives total production, but it doesn't break it down by color, or country for that matter.
  • tsaupe1tsaupe1 Posts: 166
    Billymay, Those number come from the factory. I checked with them through the owner's site. It's well worth registering if you haven't already. Nero Metallico is an unusual paint for Ferrari across the board. When you add in all the other differences between cars, you might find you're more unique than you think. For instance, of the 328s in that colour, I've found out that mine is the only one with the full Schedoni interior. I've found one other (in Japan) which has the same interior colour (wine) but has the black dash top and arm rests.

    As for websites, I also highly recommend joining Ferrari Chat, if you haven't already. Great info and a nice group of people. Not unlike this forum! Is the 30K done yet? I'm curious to hear your impressions when you've had the car on the road for a bit. I've had the good fortune to own a few Ferraris and until I get my next, I love this one the most!

    Best of luck and happy motoring!

    Tom
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "i bought my enzo for $700,000 and it was worth it i tell ya wat"

    Gee, this wasn't you, was it?

    http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-022206ferrari_lat,0,1938469.story?coll=la-s- tory-footer
  • fghtonfghton Posts: 1
    ...Listen to "enzo4re"...This guy knows what he's talking about. After owning two Ferraris (a Mon dial and then a 355 which I should have never sold!), I bought a 2002 911 Turbo X-50 with 2100 miles in absolutely mint factory type condition. The first owner who had it for 2100 miles paid 154k for it. I bought it a year later for 116k...I put only 4000 miles on the car and just sold it today for 85k.
    The car was perfect. Now if you think I got a bad deal, think again. This was the best offer by far after listing it on E-Bay and taking it to four local Porsche dealers, none of which who would even take it on consignment! E-Bay had 295 Porsche's listed for sale. The after market has virtually evaporated for the higher end Porsches. And when the new 07's come out with 480HP the 04-06's will go in the toilet just like the 2000-2003 Turbo X50's did when the new Turbo Carrera S came out.

    As for driving it everyday. Yah...you can do that but maintenance ain't cheap at the Porsche dealer either, and the darn car, with the sluggish "tiptronic" simply is no fun to drive. And you virtually can't tell a 165k Turbo Porsche from a 65k Carrera on the outside so why bother?

    What did I do with my money from the Porsche sale?
    Just bought a 2003 360 Modena coupe with a six speed manual shift and 5400 miles. For the first time in over two years driving is now fun again...Nothing sounds...looks... nor drives like a Ferrari.
    I'm like a kid in a candy store!
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I'm glad to hear that you're happy again, but I think we are on opposite ends of the sports car spectrum when it comes to use, enjoyment and value.

    I've put 6,200 miles on my 911S Cab in the past 7 months. I expect that rate to increase now that spring is here. You put 4,000 miles on the 2002 911 Turbo in 3+ years. Quick math indicates about 100 miles a month for you, 1,000 miles a month for me. Hell, my daughters have probably logged 300+ miles a month in the rear seats. Your 4 year/48,000 mile warranty expired with 42,000 miles UNUSED. I'm contemplating extending mine to a 7/75 or 7/100.

    There is no doubt that a Ferrari is a more unique car and, if driven very lightly, a better garage queen investment than the 911. But, according to the Ferrari dealer I spoke with, he was unaware of any 360's that had reached 35k miles on their odometer, in the country. He actually suggested getting a 911 if I intended to drive 10,000 to 12,000+ miles a year.

    Frankly, I'm not sure what brand of dope the previous owner was smoking when he paid $154k for a 2002 911TT/X50. (Nor what kind of dope anyone would smoke to buy a 911TT with a tiptronic). I could buy a loaded 2007 6-speed 997 Turbo today for about $140k (base MSRP of around $125k).

    On the other hand, if you managed to take $85k and turn that into a 2003 360 Modena 6-speed, you got one hell of a deal. And for someone who drives about 1/2 of the miles that my wife runs on a monthly basis, I think you made a great choice. But if I turned in our "family sports car" for a two seater garage queen, I'd be facing the wrath of three women who could make my life miserable. ;)
  • billymaybillymay Posts: 59
    Having gone from a 911 (993) to a Ferrari (328), I finally understand why other Ferrari owners thought I was clueless to make comparisons. My Porsche was a really nice car, and no doubt it's a better everyday driver than the Ferrari. But the sound, the looks and feel of driving the 328 really make the 911 irrelevant. I've also had people just walk up to me at the gas station to admire the car and ask questions.

    I don't think Ferrari owners do all this number crunching (15,000 miles a year, depreciation = $n, etc.) It's a Ferrari and you know it's irrational to start, so discussions with Porsche people (my brother is one) tend to be two guys talking past each other. Honestly, the last owner put a $2500 exhaust on my car, and whether he got another 2bhp out of it I don't know. But it sounds amazing so who cares.

    IMHO, someone would have to smoking something to pay six figures for any flavor 911, when there are ROWS of them on used car lots and unless you read a lot of car mags they all look the same.

    Don't get me wrong, I like Porsches and I might pick up a Cayman as a daily driver at some point, but there's a night-and-day type of difference between my Ferrari and my ex-Porsche. (And yes, the Porsche is a better-engineered car, hands down.)

    Tsaupe: I'm loving the car - have now had it since January. 30K major w/water pump rebuild was done at Sport Auto in NC; having the front bumper resprayed to clean up some stone chips. Apart from a minor problem with a window switch the car's been excellent thus far. It does like to be properly warmed up, and then it really comes to life (gearbox especially). Was worried the Tubi might be too loud, but I like it. I had doubts about not getting a red car, but the nero met/tan actually looks better, IMO.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I appreciate what you are saying regarding the uniqueness of the Ferrari compared to the Porsche 911. But your statements....

    But the sound, the looks and feel of driving the 328 really make the 911 irrelevant.

    IMHO, someone would have to smoking something to pay six figures for any flavor 911, when there are ROWS of them on used car lots and unless you read a lot of car mags they all look the same.


    ....suggest that you are more concerned about appearances than reality. The old 328 couldn't match the performance of my former (limited production, 9,000 rpm redline) $32k Honda S2000, let alone any model 997 or the Cayman you are considering for a daily driver. And, for less than $100k, the 911S Cab gives you comparable or better performance than a $175k Ferrari 360 Spider in a car that you can drive 30k miles in 2 years, not 20 years.

    The fact is, that your statements are relevant to you, and mine to me. And BOTH the Ferrari 328 and Porsche 911 are to be commended for being the pinnacle of their respective segments within the sports car world. So, be assured that, other than as a friendly rebuke to your post, I will never show disrespect for Ferrari. They do what they do better than any other manufacturer, period. By the same token, I would hope that you can see why the 911S isn't "irrelevant" to me and last time I checked, I wasn't smoking anything.

    P.S. I have the $2,400 Porsche sport exhaust on my 911S and, hate as I might to admit it, it sounds great too, with 0 increase in the official horsepower rating
  • billymaybillymay Posts: 59
    Hey, this board is too quiet to brush off any posts... ;)

    You're right, my experience with these cars is much more subjective and far less stopwatch/g-meter focused.

    I wouldn't compare a 308/328 to any 2006 model year sports cars on the track. I think my point, clumsily made, was that in the sports-car-experience-per-dollar ratio (which includes things like speed, visual and aural impact, and financial considerations like depreciation) is that a new 911 is a "bad deal" compared to some of Porsche and Ferrari's past offerings.

    Obviously I still appreciate Porsches. The value equation of the new models eludes me, though.
  • I wouldn't compare a 308/328 to any 2006 model year sports cars on the track. I think my point, clumsily made, was that in the sports-car-experience-per-dollar ratio (which includes things like speed, visual and aural impact, and financial considerations like depreciation) is that a new 911 is a "bad deal" compared to some of Porsche and Ferrari's past offerings.

    O.K., I'll bite on that one.

    I went through a tough decision to trun down a very good deal on a friends Ferrari 360 and have elected to order a new 911 S coupe instead.

    What's the "bad deal" when the 911 S is more than capable of being driven daily at 15,000 miles per year and doesn't require an oil change until 20k miles? The 360's 30k major service would run $7,500 at the dealership. Worse yet, any relatively significant repair could take the car out of commission for 4-5+ weeks. The original owner did drive his 360 on a regular basis, but it depreciated substantially as a result. The dealer deducted $40,000 from the trade in value because it had 30k miles instead of the "expected" 5-8k. The owner offered it to me for less still, just to spite the dealer. They since made up and he's happy with his new 430.

    The Ferrari 328 is a beautiful classic that looks great standing still. But to compare it to a new 997 and somehow conclude that the 997 is a "bad deal" suggests that you are willing to spend a lot of time admiring your 328 rather than driving it.

    There really should be no comparison of ANY classic exotic to a current model 997. They serve significanly different purposes. A nearly 20 year old 328 is no more of a good daily driver than a 997 is an impressive garage queen. But reverse those roles, and both should serve their purpose very well. I'd take a 328 over a 911 for 1,500 miles of Sunday driving.

    P.S. I owned one of the 450 original BMW M1's. Wish I still had it. But I wouldn't be driving it a fraction of the miles I'll put on the 911, if at all.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I'd take a 328 over a 911 for 1,500 miles of Sunday driving.

    In the spirit of compromise, I would agree. The old 911's don't do much for me visually. And the 328 can still turn heads on a dark night.
  • billymaybillymay Posts: 59
    True enough. I have other vehicles to drive daily, and in that light a Ferrari fits my needs perfectly. I'm OK trading a lot of practicality for driving something rare, because as a weekend car it needn't go 15K miles annually, and if it's in the shop a few days that's OK. (4-5 weeks?! The 30K major service on mine only took 1 week and that's for a 19-year old car...)

    I thought, however, that one of the earlier posts missed the point with all the number crunching regarding Porsches and Ferraris. It reminded me of the "Evo, M3 or 355?" posts I see on other sites, which must leave 355 owners scratching their heads.

    I would say that Porsche buyers often make these sensible calculations about downtime, oil change intervals and such, while Ferrari buyers don't. My brother sold his 911 and is hesitating on an Aston or another exotic after seeing the shop receipts. I saw stacks of Ferrari shop receipts before I owned one, said "ouch" and then bought anyway. Likely nearly every 360 owner knew what it cost to maintain the car before they signed on.

    There's more than a bit of "heart over mind" involved here (seeing as this is the Ferrari Lovefest topic...) To stretch the analogy more than it might deserve, it's a bit like saying the Mona Lisa is far more expensive than quality wallpaper.

    In some sense, we feel we got a "good deal" due to the intangibles.

    At any rate congrats on your new 997. They are superb cars, period. If you ever need a carsitter, my references are top notch. Enjoy it.
  • tsaupe1tsaupe1 Posts: 166
    Billymay, glad to hear you're enjoying the car. Without getting into the the Porsche/Ferrari thing to heavily I'll just put in my 2 cents by saying they are both great marques with very different appeal. I can't think of any two marques that are more polar opposites in approach to the same problem. Obviously, for me, I love Ferraris and appreciate Porsches and respect the reverse opinion.

    Spiritinthesky, I know 328s that are pretty much daily drivers. Before my commute became an hour each way, mine was a daily car in good weather. When it isn't pouring rain, I still take it to work a couple of times a week and generally at least have it out for a few miles daily. There are a number of Ferrari models I wouldn't drive as much, but 328s are solid, drivable cars.

    Anyway, congrats to both of you. Enjoy your cars!
  • zak1964zak1964 Posts: 2
    I am a Porsche enthusiast who is looking to make the jump to Ferrari. I am looking for advice on the 360 Coupe - what to look for in buying a pre-owned 360, what I should expect to pay (2001 - 2003 model year), as well as how best to source a pre-owned 360 (delaer or private). I have been to my local Ferrari dealer on a few occassions and found them to be arrogant and generally unhelpful.

    Also, any advice anyone can provide on the 430 Coupe would also be helpful, especially what I should expect to pay for a 2005/2006 version, and how best to locate one.

    I am new to the Ferrari message board and appreciate any advice that you may have.
  • Earlier this year, I came very clsoe to purchasing a Ferrari 360 coupe from a friend who has since received his new 430.

    Frankly, I'm glad I didn't. The 360 is a very nice car, without a doubt. However, the 430 is a enormous jump in performance for a nominal increase in price. But a bigger issue than performance is daily driveability - and that's an issue for me with both models, as my prior posts indicate. Part of the reason I could have gotten the 360 at a relatively good price was that the dealership insulted my friend with a low-ball trade offer because his 360 was considered a "high mileage" car. At a whopping 28,000 miles in nearly 4 years.

    If you are seriously interested in a 430, I would suggest getting on a dealer list for a new one. Another business associate paid MSRP ($175k +/-) for a 430 Coupe, Yellow/Black 6-speed manual. He was originally told it would take 2 years, he had the car less than 1 year after placing a deposit. He could sell it for a $30,000 to $50,000 premium today (the dealer currently has a 430 F1 Spider with 800 miles for $60,000 over MSRP, but it is "used" so they can freely charge whatever the market will bear). You should be able to find a reputable dealer that will stick to MSRP pricing for a new car ordered to your specs. I'm not sure what current wait times are. I had been talking to Ferrari of Washington (DC) some time back. The 6-speed had a shorter wait than an F1 and a Coupe had a shorter wait than a Spider.

    Me, I decided to go with Porsche and am expecting delivery of my 2007 911 Turbo (switched from 911 S) in October/November. I epect at this time next year it will be turning 10,000 miles on the odometer.

    Good luck.
  • chile96chile96 Posts: 330
    "Anyone reading this who is wavering between a Porsche and a Ferrari needs to actually drive both. They exist in two different universes."

    I completely agree and is THE reason why I have both :shades:
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