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Ford Mustang (2004 and earlier)

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  • john_324john_324 Posts: 974
    Speaking of the GTO, how are these things selling? In my area (Wash D.C.), I've seen more 2005 Mustangs on the road so far than GTOs the entire year. Are people buying them, or what?

    The styling is Grand-Am boring, but the performance is certainly there...
  • All the magazine reports I've seen claim the 05 Mustang GT will beat an 04 GTO 0-60 and 1/4 mile. Not to mention the 05 Mustang GT costs LESS than a GTO and in my opinion looks WAY better than the GTO. The 04 looks too much like a Grand Prix coupe in my opinion.
  • My two cents. I rented a sixer to putt around in over the Thanksgiving day weekend. ($30 per day to Beach City Mustang Club members out here in SoCal) Not bad, Not bad at all. The ride is stiffer than I expected. Not that much different than my 99 GT. Very quick off the line and enough power to spank a late model Eclipse and Celica. Each of which attempted to "test me" on my way to work this morning on the 110.

    Ford really pegged this one. I test drove a 99 V-6 before buying my GT. That test drive lasted half a city block before I pulled a U-turn and returned to the dealership. That car felt sluggish and heavy. This car may weigh just as much, but it "feels" as light as my Honda Accord. Had the previous gen car felt this nimble I probably would not have bought the GT. It's a blast to drive. Let me put it this way, backing this car out of it's parking space was all the driving I needed to alert me that the experience was going to be a good one.

    The interior feels much more spacious than my GT. I favor wrap around dashes, so I'm not going ga ga over the layout, but my son and everyone at dinner tonight kept commenting on how cool it looked. Eh, it's OK

    The only complaint I can muster is that hanging your elbow out the window is not an option, the sill is too high.

    Oh, one other thing. It's much easier to wash, uh...dry, than my 99. Without all the fake scoopery and spoilerage I can run my California Water blade over it much quicker with large sweeping strokes. Waxing should be much easier but I'm not gonna wax a rental to find out.

    The rear side windows give better visibility into my blind spots than do those on my GT. I disagree on the need for chrome trim around those. I prefer the clean look

    I was surprised at how much space and access is available underhood. You can stick your arm virtualy anywhere around the engine. Shade tree mechanics will rejoice. Also noticed what appears to be a ready made porthole for a "ram air" duct right underneath the air filter enclosure. Perhaps the GT makes use of it or maybe Ford put it there for the aftermarket. For whatever reason it is a pass through that leads to the area under the front bumper.

    Would I buy one? Sure, for my wife. As quick as it is, it's still no match in the go department Vs my 99 GT, and it does not make music when you throttle it up. So, when I return this rental if they offer it to me "used", I may very well purchase it. (I rented from a local Ford dealership, not a rental agency like Hertz). I won't buy one "new" though. I gots to test drive a GT first.

    Here's a question for anyone out there. Has anyone been able to buy ANY 05 Mustang for MSRP in Southern Cal. If so PLEASE direct me to that dealership. All the new ones I've seen are marked up two to five thousand dollars.
    Thanks all.
  • The 05 Mustang GT MSRP with a few options easily reaches $30K after destination charges. The 04 GTO is going for around $26k as everyone is waiting for the 400hp 05 GTO. I've driven an 05 Mustang 5 speed and found it lacking the performance the magazines said it had. The 04 GTO comes loaded and has respectable performance. I believe Ford threw in some "ringers" for the press to test drive for the magazines. Some forums have cited that at the race track the GTO has been winning most races against the 05 Mustangs that come from the dealerships.
  • O5 Mustang GT MSRP does NOT "easily" reach $30k after destination charge. I just ordered a 05 GT PREMIUM with upgraded rims, interior upgrade package, side airbags, and active anti-theft system. MSRP with destination charge = $27600 ( I paid substantially lower). I'm no math wiz but that is NOT $30k and considering the available options above and beyond the one I ordered don't factor into the equation (I don't care about the Shaker 1000, and I definately don't care about the automatic option and those are the 2 highest priced options). In fact with ALL the options, the Premium GT just barely reaches $30k.

    I have driven the '04 GTO and it isn't bad in the performance department... not bad at all, but nowhere near as good overall compared to the 05 Mustang (the goat is a tad quicker, but much more sloppy compared to the Mustang) However the GTO's biggest downfall is the styling. Simply stated, the styling just plain sucks. Being a big fan of the real GTO's (and an ex owner of one), I think it is an embarrasment to the badge.

    One can believe whatever conspiracy theories about Ford throwing in some "ringers" for the press, but history will prove which car will be the classic.

    I will be test driving the '05 GTO to obtain a more apples to apples comparison ('05 vs. '05) but between the '04 GTO and '05 Mustang, dollar per dollar the 2005 Mustang GT is the far better car. period.
  • and the 300C has been on the radar. Now even the Mustang GT has worked its way into equation. I have not seen a Mustang GT in person (station overseas), but the pricing and photos has made it appealing. The 04' GTO was definitely fun to drive, but the 300C has similar performance, more room and nice amenities. The 05' GTO might be the best overall value based on performance, limited production and pricing (with incentives). My goal was to purchase (not lease) a vehicle for less than 30K out the door. If honor by the dealer, I actually qualify for all the Manufactures Employee/Family & Friends Discounts (its nice to be from the Motor City).

    Here is what I have found for 2005 MSRP Base Pricing for each model:

    2005 Chrysler 300-Series 4dr Sdn 300C
    MSRP
    Base $32,870.00

    2005 Ford Mustang 2dr Cpe GT Premium

    MSRP
    Base $25,705.00

    2005 Pontiac GTO 2dr Cpe
    MSRP
    Base $32,295.00

    Anyone else having problems deciding between these vehicles?
  • I rechecked my figures by going to the dealership two blocks away and using the MSRP pricing on their 05 Mustang GT premium which came out to $28,495 + Destination of $625 to a grand total of $29,120 without the Automatic option of $995 that would put it over the $30k mark.

      I've driven both cars and disagree with your analysis. The outward styling of the GTO needs improvement while the interior of the Mustang I feel is lacking. The GTO will be low sales volume and Mustang high sales volume. You can run with the herd or stand out alone. It's up to the person who makes the purchase and not the ones here who debate.
      
      The good thing is that BOTH give reason to rejoice with fresh drag strip rivalry and occasionally a stop light encounter. I'm for anybody purchasing a V8 RWD performance car of any make. Let's hope the aftermarket keeps up with affordable performance enhancement products.
  • I don't know where this dealership you are speaking of gets its MSRP figures, but they are incorrect. Look at this very website for the correct figures. MSRP for a GT Premium WITH destination charge is $26330. Your dealership may be charging a dealers premium, or maybe some regional adjustment, but that is NOT MSRP.

    Disagreement is fine, but my analysis stands.
    I mean afterall, considering that I AM amongst the ranks of one who has made the purchase, I will gladly debate the matter.

    The GTO does not turn as tight as the new Mustang. I took them both through the exact same track and the GTO wasn't bad, but compared to the new Mustang,... well there is no comparison.
    The GTO has the edge in suspension over rougher road and in speed, but I'll gladly spend the extra $ that I saved buying the Mustang and put it into performance parts.
     
    The GTO may perform akin to a muscle car, but it's styling, both in and out is just too darn cheesy in my opinion. The interior would be fine if not for the red or blue backed gauges and if they made the radio smaller than the size of a toaster. The new Mustangs' interior is OK, but not great. I don't really care for the aluminum look that you get in the upgrade package. The mycolor thing is nice, but the only reason I got the interior upgrade package was so that I could get the side airbags.

    It's obvious we disagree on which is the finer, next generation muscle car and that is OK. I am just really dissapointed in Pontiac for doing what they did to the GTO. While I loved my '69 GTO, I don't have any feelings but disdain for the new GTO.

    Regards
  • This was with options.... $25,705 base, shaker 1000 sound $1295, anti theft $255,interior upgrade $450,interior accent pkg $175,wheel locks $50,side air bags $370, and 17" bright machined wheels (A great deal)$195. This equals my correctly stated $28,495. This is without the $995 Automatic transmission or $625 destination charge. These numbers match Edmunds pricing as well. Sorry if you disagree with these facts . I am using the manufacturers numbers and have cross checked with Edmunds, these numbers are not wrong. The 04 GTO is selling for around $26k and will go lower in a few days when the 05s arrive. These cars are very evenly matched in price and performance.

    Since I am ALSO among the ranks who has purchased one of these vehicles my opinion is still as valid as yours. Everyone has certain criteria when evaluating. Doesn't make one view right and another wrong.

    My original post was on pricing and I'm standing by it. Yes you can get a base Mustang GT for $25,705 MSRP but with options and destination the MSRP price of a 05 Mustang GT can approach $30k. Sorry if you disagree.
  • I'm sorry you are missing the point. You originally stated...

    "The 05 Mustang GT MSRP with a few options easily reaches $30K after destination charges"

    You are loading the Mustang GT (the PREMIUM as well) with ALL....I repeat ALL the options, and it barely reaches $30k. I didn't include the shaker 1000 because it's affect on the performance on the car is nonexistent (adds a little weight with the sub, so it is actually detrimental). I didn't include the auto because most muscle car people prefer the stick, as I do.

    So I don't dissagree with those numbers you listed above, but you changed the point of contention from your original, "The 05 Mustang GT MSRP with a few options easily reaches $30K after destination charges", to, hey...I can get the 05 Mustang to $30kif I put every single option under the sky on it.
  • Many cars can have 10, 20 or more options. I consider the options listed to be a "few" (1.adj. Not many but more than one. 2. N. [used with a pl. v.] A small number or amount.)

      I didn't know that I would have to itemize them like I did in post 1365. A few is what I listed. It doesn't matter if it has 2 options available. The word "few" still fits the meaning of my statement.

     It all boils down to can you get a 05 Mustang to the $30k mark with a "few" options. The answer is YES.
  • I guess it is too bad Ford did not consult you before packaging the Mustang.
      
    Justify it all you want, but above (post 1365), you listed all but ONE option (the automatic). You are trying to say that is a "few" options.... jeesh,...give me a break.
  • The word "few" was used correctly. Oh By the way.. don't forget you can accessorize with additional dealer installed options like hands free communication, keyless entry, polished wheels and racing stripes.

     Not to mention options from dealers, like mine, connected to Roush or Saleen. I'm not even getting close to mentioning ALL the options available for the 05 Mustang when a person comes into a dealership and asks "What options can I get?"

    The Hosts will be pleased with all of the red flags I deleted. :)
  • funny stuff. No sense in debating the issue further, you have your own "logic".

    BTW - Mustangs already come with keyless entry as a standard feature.
  • The keyless entry I mentioned is the number pad installed on the door,(not a standard feature) but it is a dealer installed option.

    I enjoyed our debate.
  • The original argument posited by coolhandluke was "easily" and "few". It actualy took 7 options
    which is not a few. Few is any amount that does not represent a significant percentage of the total and certainly cannot exceed 50% of said total. Although there are twelve options listed for a base GT, and ten for the Premium GT, two are no-charge such as CA emmisions and the spoiler delete option. Two others are exclusionary. In other words, you cannot get a Shaker 1000 AND a Shaker 500 in the same car. In reality you only have 9 options for the Base GT and 8 for the Premium. According to post 1365 coolhandluke has used up 78% of available options for the Base GT and 88% for the Premium GT. Additionaly, since the original post refered to a GT and not a Salleen or Roush variant (Salleens are not GT's anyway) I therefore deem the position taken by 05mustanggt to have the greater merit and award him or her victory in this debate.

    As far as dealer installed options are concerned, those don't count. Anyone who gets anything "dealer installed" has rocks in there head. Get your rims, lowering kits, body kits, window tint, etc ANYPLACE other than the dealer. If you're lucky you'll only pay twice as much at the dealer, but more likely three, four, five, or more times as much. (former car salesman talking)

    Besides, dealer installed options are not "Ford" parts and cannot be included as "official" options and since they were only mentioned at the tail end of the debate, they are deemed not materiel' to the original points of contention.
  • You claim be be a Mustang nut. On page 24 of the 05 Ford Mustang brochure (c) 2004 it lists the options I mentioned and claims them to be GENUINE Ford.

    With that I rule that you can't award squat !

    Again the Host will be pleased. :)
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    Instead of discussing the relative merits between the GTO and the Mustang GT, were are argueing over what constitutues "few". Get a grip.

    Has it occurred to you luke that there is a REASON you can apparently get better than $6k off the MSRP on an '04 GTO? I've heard of equally impressive savings on '04 Mustang GT's. What's your point?

    One can either drive a 'limited edition' GTO or be one of the herd driving a Mustang? There is only one reason the GTO is a 'limited edition': IT ISN'T SELLING! You can spin that all you want but to refer to a slow seller with huge discounts as a 'limited edition' is laughable.

    And there is another good reason why so few GTOs are seen on the road: they're invisible. The eye just glides over them as just another cavalier/grand am/jelly bean. Live with it.
  • john_324john_324 Posts: 974
    Is it possible we're seeing another replay of the Ford-GM ponycar battle?

    The late F-body (Camaro/Firebird, RIP) was an undisputed better performer than that Mustang. Those cars were monsters, and I love 'em for what they were. But GM stopped making them because nobody was buying them. The Mustang outsold them roughly 2-to-1.

    This is not to denigrate GM's musclecars, but rather to point out that sheer performance is NOT the only selling point in this class...things like style, every-day driveability, etc. are just as important to the majority of the buying public.
      
    Ford has always understood that with the Mustang, usually making it a great compromise of attributes, while GM keeps thinking that gut-wrenching performance alone will make buyers forgive other automotive sins...

    The GTO has a nice interior, but the exterior styling is too Grand-Am in execution...esp. since the other muscle cars (Mustang, 300C) have returned to a more sharp and blocky idiom; the GTO appears behind the times. I can't wait to see the next GTO however, which will be designed here in the USA...I bet it will be a knockout.
  • Cheesy platform. Saw those dual headlights coming up behind me and thought I was on Mars. Come on guys, let that stang stay in 1967. Those days are gone.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    I didn't even know dual headlights were indiginous to Mars.....
  • dan1dan1 Posts: 76
    The old gen Mustang outsold the TransAM/Camaro combined by a good margin and they cannot keep the new Mustang's on the lots. The GTO is discounted almost 10k and they are still not selling.
    The GTO lost in about every if not all performance catagories when it went up against the Cobra in a Car and Driver compairison. Car and Driver tested the 05 and found it to be quicker 0-60 and through the 1/4 mile than the GTO. But yeah the Mustang must have been a ringer and the GTO wasn't broken in, I missed a shift etc...
    The new GTO will have 400hp and will probably sticker well into 40k plus range when optioned out. At that price you can buy a vette so they will have to discount them again. Then maybe the GTO will be worth a look.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,253
    My sister (a Ford employee) just took delivery of her jet black '05 Mustang GT. She got it a little earlier than she thought she would (by about 1 month). All I can say is one word.........DAMN!!!!!

    This is a nice piece from the Ford guys. That's going some for me to say it since I've never been a Ford fan.

    Understand that I own an RX8, which I dearly love.

    The most obvious advantages my RX8 has over her Mustang is handling, better interior materials, ride, comfort. I also spent just north of $30K for my RX8 all loaded up, including NAV.

    For $27K that this Mustang cost (she didn't have the upgraded stereo, but the one that came with it is no slouch), no machined aluminum wheels. But she did get the "dress-up" interior package (whatever Ford calls the metal trim along the width of the dash) and leather interior. It's a mighty fine machine.

    I love the sound from the V8. It'll stomp all over my RX8 off the line, the 1/4 and probably top speed (although she wouldn't let me test that last part).

    Shifter and clutch are heavier than in my RX8, but all works with a refined feel. Steering is also much better in my RX8, but again, the "Stang's" steering felt nicely weighted and accurate. In general, all the "driving" feel of the car feels heavy in comparison, but still better than something along the lines of a 350Z.

    Build quality of the 'Stang is much better than the Z, too (no surprise there).

    I don't know how much more you could put on this car over how the one I drove was optioned up to get it to MSRP of $30K but the one I drove didn't want for much more unless you wanted a sunroof ('vert will take care of that) or NAV.

    If Ford can keep up with obvious big demand, they've got themselves a winner....particularly at the price point.
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    This is a typical example of someone that talks but can back up what they have to say.

    Check out this Motor Trend article
    http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0402_mustang/index3- .html

    and the link to the same magazines test on the 04 GTO http://motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0312_gto/index.html

    There is actually an article with complete track stats in the Nov 04 Motor Trend.

    Mustang GT 0 to 60 5.1 secs, 1/4 mile 13.6 secs at 99.9 mph

    04 Pontiasc GTO 0-60 mph 5.3 sec , 1/4 mile 13.62 @ 104.78
  • I've also seen articles where the 03 - 04 Mach 1 Mustang outruns the 04 GTO. I know that for a fact as well since I've watched an 03 5spd Mach 1 beat two 04 GTOs on a regular basis at Heartland Park Topeka.

    04 Mustang Mach 1 had better 0-60 and 1/4 mile times than the 04 GTO.

    I love this quote from Car & Driver:

     "Which means that the only other pony-car poseur on the market—the costlier, slow-selling 350-horse Pontiac GTO—will be humbled at the drag strip by your lowly little Ford coupe. Be polite about it. Act surprised. But don't apologize."
  • john_324john_324 Posts: 974
    Hey, let's be nice now...

    But that *is* a great quote. :-)

    I think the next-gen GTO, with more appropriate styling and the LS2 engine will be the one to get...GM has even said the current one is but a placeholder until they can design one here in the USA. If it comes off as it should, and Chrysler brings out a new Charger, I think we can then talk of the second coming of the musclecar era...
  • In answer to:
    "Here's a question for anyone out there. Has anyone been able to buy ANY 05 Mustang for MSRP in Southern Cal. If so PLEASE direct me to that dealership. All the new ones I've seen are marked up two to five thousand dollars."

    I bought one a few weeks ago at $50 UNDER MSRP - at Drew Ford in the San Diego area (I guess it's actually considered La Mesa). I got a price quote from them by going through Edmunds. Feel free to email me at tayllor@mail.com if you want more information.
  • fdthirdfdthird Posts: 352
    Have you noticed that Motor Trend seems to have it in for Ford?

    They don't like the 500 (underpowered, a bad Xerox of the Passat, etc) and in the most recent issue (Car of the Year) didn't have a lot of nice things to say about the Mustang and looked long and hard to find things not to like about the Freestyle. Not enough Ford add revenue???
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    I gave up on this so called journalistic endeavor about a dozen years ago when their editors began to appear in GM commercials raving about Pontiacs....can you feel the excitment driving the Pontiac Grand AM? please

    The say at Car and Driver is "if you read Motor Trend, you end up MT."
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